Imhotep Evil

Yes I know such things.

But Audi has nice/enviable profit margins (tough quite lower than BMW) even if
they're using ASF + comanding lower prices + selling less expensive/high margin cars like A8 & S/RS vs 7er & ///M cars.

And those ASF cars usually come with AWD too (= extra cost), witch for BMW would not be necesary

My guess is, that on production+implementation vs. costs Audi kicks BMW @$$ on the ASF matter.

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Harry Plopper

Mind that BMW have no factories in countries with low-cost labour like Audi do (eg. Slovakia, Hungary). Having plants in Eastern Europe lowers the production costs for Audi - and the shared new platform will lower the cost even more.

Yet BMW pruduction has one significant advantage: it is very flexible - enabling BMW to react on market demand very quickly.

You should also know that labour costs in Eastern Europe will rise with time (also due Unions' pressure; socialist goverments winning election & rising taxes). So ...

Also Audi's profit (margin) is also high due not so much exchange rates loss (Euro vs US Dollar) since their sales in US is not as high as the one of MB or BMW. So ...

BMW are not using aluminium, magnesium, CF, composite materials even more extensivelly due financial reasons, not technical ones. Technically they are capable, yet the development budget & production costs should stay in limits.

Audi is using new tech also due their image as technology driven brand (Vorsprung durch Technik!), even sacrifinig higher profit margin for that reason.


Btw, ASF in my text means Aluminium Space Frame!

Michael

I really have to give it to Enilab this time. I think he is right and I think he makes a good point about Audi and where their factories are and the shared platforms.

Harry Plopper

Also do not forget Audi is co-developing many engines with VW within VAG concern. And that eg. Q7 used some development solutions from Touraeg / Cayenne, so development cost were a bit lower due this reason.

Also I'm sure VAG is buying some parts & materials by lower prices from suppliers than BMW AG, since VAG is a much larger customer. And Audi AG benefit from that.

Also: remember A2 with ASF, it was so da*n expensive to produce Audi stopped its production.

ASF and similar lightweight solutions are much more appropriate for top-end luxury models & sport cars.

Btw, BMW will soon start to use special foam for filling extra-thin steel tubes used in body construction. The solution is inexpensive, very light, and brings amazing rigidity to car's body. Much better solution than full alu body. Yet of course in top-end sport cars also alu, magnesium & CF will be used - combined with this special foam: making cars even lighter, yet production will be much more expensive - but due high price the profit margin will stay high.

warot

They do have South Africa but that's it. All the other plants outside Germany and the US are only assembly plants.

shonguiz

Stop dreaming my friend, you think that Audi makes Asf structures alone ? What about the suppliers ?

YoungWarrior

BMW do make cars in eastern european countries actually, a reason why my mum now no longer will buy one. (Shes german born n bred)

No doubt the X5 will have class leading dynamics till the next gen cayenne is out.
Shame about the X5 looks though, and its chavvy UK customers.

Oh wait I dont think im allowed to say that, the bmw fanboys will get me for that.

Harry Plopper

Oh, really. Can you tell me where. A proof will be needed.

My weapon: - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

I really hate BSing.


PS: assembly factories provide vehicles for local markets only, not for export (eg. in UK you can't buy a BMW vehicle from assembly factory in Egipt)!

Yannis

Audi is only buying the material (aluminium) the rest of the manufacturing process takes place in Neckarsulm plant:

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

Harry Plopper

So does BMW in Dingolfing plant (with RR Phantom ASF).

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