The Artist

well its a battle.. kudos to them who make it out of the middle to the upper class.. cause in sweden the middle class takes the hardest beating

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Centurion

We can't speak about the gap between rich and poor without mentioning South Africa. The gap there is insane. Some people over there have barely 1000 euro to spend annually while a huge majority of the country are more or less as wealthy as american celebs. This gap can be seen very cleaarly in cities like Cape Town. Maybe Martinbo can tell us more about it.

Hypersonic

Money gives you more choices in life, but happiness depends on how wise those choices are.

The Artist

For sure roberto.. very true and wise post

Centurion

Good points Rob and I beleive that in order for a person to live a happy life he or she need to have the following:

A stable economy.
A happy family people.
Good friends around her/him.
Least but not least a loving partner.

Everything else in live means squat.

Hypersonic

Yes, wise points there Lu, but I also think one other very important thing a person needs is a purpose ....whether that be found in a job they enjoy ...or in religion or anything else .......it gives us self respect. Good health also makes you feel better about life.

donau

Some very true and valid opinions here. This time too many to start putting the quotes on in this comment.

A few more thoughts about the level of income vs. effort put in. My parents in Finland whom both are long since retired put in about the same effort to get each other educated. But the choice of professions, and the careers they brought with them, allowed my father to have a much greater income, and on top of that, with a lot less work.
I myself have been in IT for about 25 years after first trying out another career path for a couple of years. During that time, being an employee of a regular company gives me an income, the level of which I would imagine most people can guess. Nothing great, but enough to be thankful for. There was a couple of years that I was lucky enough to be able to do some consulting work. During that time, with the same effort that I am putting in today, I was regularly earning double what I am earning today, and for one year, four times what I am earning today. But that year I cashed in on some stock options. The point here being again: LUCK has a lot to do with everything. In case someone wonders why I stopped that lucrative job: A nasty medical condition with my wife has gradually become so bad that she needs around the clock care, and my current employer is allowing me to work from home. And of course I am extremely grateful for that. Another example about money not always being the thing that counts.

I am not saying that being lucky is unfair. Not at all. Good for those who are lucky. I am happy for everyone who is.

In my opinion, skillful (and skillful is the key word) investing is the only way to accumulate wealth, at least in my circumstances. And if everyone did this, the rich would get richer, and the poor would also get richer, just not quite as fast as the rich, as Roberto said earlier on.

Luwalira pointed out SA. Since I lived there myself for 12 years, I would be interested in hearing Martinbo's thoughts on this topic as well. My own family members (from my wife's side) have just about all been forced to be entrepreneurs, i.e. start their own businesses because regular employment is mainly offered to those whose families were oppressed for so long. Amazing how this turn of events have actually made them all even better off than they were before.

Snake Vargas

How's this for food for thought: for the rich to get richer, the poor must get poorer, or remain relatively poor.

Money doesn't come from nowhere, except in the way that natural resources are converted into useable goods. All other 'wealth' is simply recirculated and redistributed. Shares are a wealth distribution tool - the money that the company makes is distributed to its shareholders, whether through dividends or increased worth. The company makes money from its business partners. That's more or less the rest of the population, in some way or another.

So, for any particular person in society to get rich quick, there is always going to be a loser. Every time someone buys into a certain fund because it makes the most profit, then all that's doing is sending the message that profit is the most important thing for a company. Then the message is reinforced that the only thing people care about is money. That's when you get more bank fees, poorer service and utility, 'rationalisation', outsourcing and sacking of employees, all so that a profit can be turned.

Now, if you have no problem with that, then so be it. We all need money to buy food and to pay bills, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with trying to make the most of your money. Just be aware that the source of that money is your neighbour. That's fair to a certain extent - in that if they buy things, then they're more or less voluntarily contributing to that company.. but sometimes they really have little choice.

So, rant over but still without a clear point, I can just say that I am increasingly of the opinion that good social responsibility from both corporations, citizens and governments is necessary to stop society becoming greed-centred, selfish and mercenary (ie. primarily concerned with money and/or profit). I don't believe that would be a good society to live in.

Hypersonic

Interesting post SV ....but I'm not convinced by your argument - the world is in fact getting richer - the wealth and standard of living throughout the entire world has increased enormously over the past century. Of course there have always been poor and desperately poor people in the world and I do believe in helping those in need - but economies do get richer...and not necessarily by "taking" wealth from others - that is a very Marxian way of looking at things.

I'm certainly no expert on these matters, I'm sure members like Bozzor or 450SEL 6.9 could explain it in more depth ....but the value of commodities and resources does increase with demand etc.. and also the education of "human resources" (the population) can translate into economic growth for a nations economy.

Snake Vargas

What I'm saying is, where does this 'wealth' come from? It's the same whether in personal terms, or nation to nation. It comes from somewhere else. Any actual increase in the utility of the planet's resources occurs relatively slowly, IMO.

I'm not really an economist, but my theory is mainly that the creation of wealth is largely an illusion, and what you're really seeing is mainly its (re)distribution. I am firmly of the opinion that greed is not a victimless crime.

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