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This is offical MB Press releae with real info and pricing.

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Imhotep Evil

First I was talking about the M6 witch normaly should have superior handling to rival or just about (almost) every Mercedes product because it is a BMW.
But here goes my extended explanation:

The first SL was the W194 300 SL sportcar (only) based on the 300 S.
Max Hoffmann convinced the MB to make a street legal version, thus the W198 300 SL coupe (Gullwing) was born. This car was never made to make money. So as to lose less money the Merc boys decided to build the roadster. The 300 SL roadster was more luxurious and confortable and no longer had the dreaded rear axle. Alas this camed at the price of the driving dynamics.
But with the 300 SL roadster and the 190 Pagoda the SL line turned from products competing with the likes of Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar to sedan choped coupes. The high quality 230 SL and 280 SL were no rivals for the likes of the E-Type, 250 GTO, Miurna, but that was MBs plan.

So now what about me speaking about a car not even tested.
Well here goes:
- the core Mercedes Benz were quality, luxury, comfort, even a greater degree of practicability.
- those of BMW were diferent. Since the '60s their idea was to put in their sedans/cars the driving dynamics of a sport car.
To build a car who is adressed to the driver. Ofcourse this, until recently (and even now) meant sacrifices. The rear passanger space and/or trunk space were usually compromized for the sake of RWD and weight distribution; the AWD system on X5 was a disater off road but the truck would handle great like a RWD car.

Making the driver feel good was BMWs task, while pampering the passanger was MBs main task.

Some time ago the choise was easy. You wanted premium german driver's car you went for BMW (sport sedan) and/or Porsche (sport car), but not MB, for MB was not a sport(y) driver's car maker.

BMW and Porsche were/are defined by cars such as the 328, 2002, CSL, 356, 550, 911. While MB by the likes of 550K, 770K and the 600.

To say a BMW(/Porsche) will have superior driving dinamics to a MB launched/tested yet or not does not mean you are a bullshiter or a profet, but just a person with a little bit of MB knowledge and common sense (this unless we are talking about it's an exception).

If you bum-man can imagine as something normal for MB to equal/surpass BMW when it comes to handling (driving dynamics), then you have a greater imagination and/or a diferent perception of Mercedes Benz then I do.

So my point is considering the price and MB weaknesess, its traditional values/stenghts - quality, luxury, comfort - better be top nouch to justify this prise (hickes).

bum-man

I'm sorry IE but that does not prove your point at all. You can give me history lessons all day about past Mercedes prerogatives but I doubt you can predict the future. So, since the press release mentioned the facelift has improved handling for a car that already handled well, I don't believe you are in the position to say the Beemer has 'far better handling' then the SL; which it never did in the first place.

The Artist

Preach

Hypersonic

It is true that the SL is not quite aiming for the same market as the 911 - it's not really a true sports car - it's a luxury GT - originally the SL (Superleggera) was a lightweight sportscar much like the Mazda MX5 (Miata in the US) - but over the years it became a heavier GT type of car - the Porsche 928 was closer to what the SL is all about.

Merc1

Whats going on here? We're comparing he SL to a M6 or 911? Nonesense. They're different cars.

M

Imhotep Evil

1. You don't have to predict the future. I just have to have a little of common sense. It's perfectly normal (or at least used to be) for an older BMW to have better handling that a newer MB. I was/is also normal for an BMW to have a better track time over an MB, unless the Benz have more HP and torque (somethimes even so).

2. And about "past MB prerogatives", I'm sorry but I do not understand you. Those "past Mercedes prerogatives" created the MB identity/image/mistique/succes story.
So what you are telling me MB should kill (well they are doing that already) it's own identity/image/mistique for what ?!
So that some jurnalist (or you) can say that a MB handles just as good or as a BMW.
BMW have becomed a succes story by creating it's own identity/image/mistique and sticking to it. They succeded by being BMW
not by being the other Mercedes with the propelar on it.
So should MB forget those "past MB prerogatives" and become the other
BMW (or Volvo) ?!

I sorry but who is BSing now.

Merc1 and Roberto you are both right. But my point was that that comfort, luxury and quality be top nouch ((considerably) better than the M6 and 911) so as to justify the price hike.

bum-man

You have some wierd ways to put words in peoples mouths.

Let me ask you this then. If you think Luxury and comfort is the only thing that a Mercedes should have why in the hell do you come into this thread bitching about the handling? Really IE you are only shooting yourself down each post you make.

Oh I'm BSing now? At least I have some current fact to back my claim up, not some cockamamy history lesson.

Imhotep Evil

I never said MB should have only have luxury and confort. Over the decades MB cars have comed from modest handling cars to good/very good handling cars, (a lot) better the (overwhelming) majority.
Nevertheless they are not BMWs, nor should they (try to) be.

Look for examle the stupid TV stunt MB made.
Insted of just saying, MBs are amongst the safest in the world, MB is an inovator/pioneer in safety they went on to make a big fuss that they are the
king, emperor and God of safety. As if they were trying to sell Volvos.

So what I'm saying is that there is a diference between
getting rid of weaknesses/ adding other secundary atributes to a brand and
stealling the identity of some else (making their primary/first and foremost atributes your primary/first and formost atributes, even at the expense of old ones ).

Basicaly MBs should be amongs other (traditional atributes), (very) good handling and (very) safe cars, but let BMWs be "Ultimate driving machine" and Volvos be "Safety".


So what you're telling me is that MB has created some "Ultimate Driving Machines". Well then I going to love the cars and hate Mercedes Benz.

But now here is my IMO.
I belive that this cars while fine are/(will be) overpriced (from a consumer perspective).
Why:
- MB outsells BMW when it comes to cars over 60000-70000 euros/dollars
- these cars have a good reputation
- to compensate for the loss of revenue due to decline in core models (C and E klasse)
- to mantain/improve profit (margins) caused also by rises in raw materials
- and let's not forget the time and money wasted on Smart, Maybach and the SLR.
- now since bringing the new C and E and improving productivity/flexibility cannot be done over night and without sacrifices, MB will IMO milk some of its consumers (overprice some cars (probably costing over 60000 USD/Euros) in some markets), for a while at least.

Merc1

Several things with this post. Mercedes is about safety just as much if not more than Volvo considering they were first with crumple zones and basic safety features that every other car on the road today uses. Secondly, which "stunt" are you talking about? If you're talking about the Distronic thing then it wasn't MB doing the stunting, it was a idiot editor at a magazine. That whole thing was not sponsored or done by Mercedes. Only when they realized it was going to happen with or without them did they try to particpate.

M

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