450SEL6.9

I think the science is pretty clear that the warming phenomenom is happening, but the global warming alarmists have made their views known to more people. Choleric is correct when he says that many scientists can produce statistical measures showing a correlation between Co2 levels and the average temperature. I have seen similar charts many times and I do believe industrial output is among the main reasons for global warming. However, I still don't buy into the Ozone Al's doomsday scenario.

Curb Zone

 

Mirage77

I think whether global warming is caused by humans or whether it is a natural phenomenon is not important.

What's crucial is that humans will be affected substantially from the effects of global warming. As we are all well aware now, we are now faced with rising sea levels, higher temperatures and even more occurences of natural disasters (take the latest tornadoes that have wrecked the US). Evidences show global warming is a real threat to mankind and we have to use all our means to counter it.

I have read articles about global warming before and they put up interesting possiblities. For one, they suggested that temperate rich countries in the north (like European countries and the US) will benefit most from global warming because their temperatures will be 'moderated' and they will become more hospitable to live in. One country, Russia, will benefit greatly too because their Siberian permafrost will finally become fertile land for agriculture.

So while global warming effects equatorial countries the most, it does give some benefits to others. Just an idea that gives an alternate POV to the 'doomsday' scenario that some scientists point out global warming to be.

Hypersonic

The reason the CO2 issue has become so big is because politicians and environmentalists jumped in before there was even substantial proof that CO2 is the main problem.

This whole debate is based around opinions -- and that is simply BAD SCIENCE.

When even the scientists who put together reports for the UN are claiming their findings have been distorted, there is cause for question.

It is truly amazing to me that at such a cynical time in which we live, people are so willing to buy into the Media hype surrounding this issue. Even some very smart people are convinced that London will be under water in 20 years -- it is utter crap. Also, where are those anti-capitalist greenies on the issue of carbon trading -- CO2 has become very big business, it is in some people's best interests to keep the public scared and convinced that CO2 is the cause of all our problems.

But this is not unprecedented ...in fact, the world has been a lot hotter in its past -- and a lot cooler. I agree, these figures look very compelling, but we must maintain a healthy discussion over its cause. I totally agree, we must clean up our industrial pollution because atmospheric pollution is a threat to life on earth -- but I am very skeptical about its part in global warming.

Hypersonic

Well nobody is disputing that Ray.

The thing is, the Media, environmentalists, and politicians, have all done a great job at convincing us we are doomed (much like Y2K) -- and yet, the scientists who study climate etc., are by no means unanimous -- it shows that not enough research has been done -- as I have said several times now, science is not a matter of opinion. Good science is based on facts.

Imhotep Evil

We're not doomed, just scr3**d.
Now we'll just have to see to level to witch we're scr3**d and deal with it.

450SEL6.9

Yes, I agree with that point, Rob. As a result, I have never believed the global warming alarmists, but they are doing a wonderful job in selling their theory. In some opinion polls, I have seen that the environment will be a major issue in upcoming elections. Such issues are generally good for left-leaning political parties.

Even though good science is, as you say, based on facts, science is not always factual. Despite all the yacking by "experts", how often is science exact? One after another, scientific marvels and breakthroughs can be refuted by sceptics. Like so many things, science is an art.

Mirage77

China set to confront climate change, defend growth

It will unveil its national plan on Monday

June 3, 2007

BEIJING, June 3 (Reuters) - China's first plan for climate change will seek to fortify the country against damage from global warming but also against international pressure to cut greenhouse gas pollution that Beijing calls the cost of growth.

China will unveil its national plan on Monday, two days before President Hu Jintao attends a meeting of Group of Eight leaders in Germany at which global warming will feature.

Beijing has already signalled that the plan is meant as a defensive policy wall to limit damage from rising seas, worsening droughts and melting glaciers, but also to protect ambitious growth goals from possible greenhouse gas quotas that it fears would cripple development.

"Global climate warming is already an undeniable fact having serious consequences for natural ecosystems and for humankind," a cabinet meeting chaired by Premier Wen Jiabao agreed on Friday, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

But China would "insist on responding to climate change within a framework of sustainable development", the cabinet said at the meeting which approved the plan.

"If developing countries' greenhouse gas emissions are restricted, their scope for development and their residents' living standards will inevitably be severely impaired," Pan Jiahua, a senior Chinese climate policy researcher who helped draft the plan said in an official newspaper on Thursday.

The dilemma facing politicians is that China is both a massive and growing greenhouse gas polluter and a populous, largely poor country seeking to rise to the ranks of wealthy world powers.

NUMBER ONE POLLUTER

This year or next China is likely to overtake the United States to become the world's biggest emitter of carbon dioxide, the main industrial greenhouse gas trapping solar heat in the atmosphere with potentially calamitous results.

But spread over a population of over 1.3 billion, including hundreds of millions of poor farmers, China's per capita emissions are a fraction of rich countries'.

China's emissions per head are one-fifth of the United States', officials said on Thursday.

They gave no further details, but per capita emissions in 2000 were under one sixth of U.S. levels. The government is currently doing an inventory of emissions, and officials usually say they have yet to make an accurate picture of current levels.

"We need to find ways to contain emissions. The contradiction facing China is that we also have the goals of developing the economy and creating jobs," Zou Ji, a Beijing climate policy expert who helped draft the plan, told Reuters earlier.

Contention is set to intensify as negotiations open on extending a U.N. treaty on global warming and emissions beyond 2012, when the first phase of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol ends.

China and other developing countries signed that treaty, but under current rules they do not have to set goals for emissions. The United States pulled out in 2001, saying Kyoto should not have excluded developing nations from the first phase of emissions targets.

But Chinese officials have pointed instead to efforts to cut the energy used to generate each unit of gross domestic product (GDP) by 20 percent of 2005 levels by 2010.

U.S. President George Bush has called on China and India to join in fresh talks on curbing greenhouse gases.

China says wealthy economies must lead the way by cutting their own emissions and sharing more energy-saving technology.

"Developed countries are using every opportunity to push for negotiations on emissions reductions and caps for developing countries," climate policy official Lu Xuedu wrote recently in a Chinese magazine, Business Watch.

"This has forced developing countries to have no choice but be exceedingly cautious in climate change treaty negotiations and to defend themselves to the hilt."

Mirage77

G8 leaders agree on "substantial" greenhouse gas cuts

In the final G8 text, leaders would acknowledge the desire of the European Union, Canada and Japan to cut emissions by at least 50 per cent by 2050, despite US resistence to set a a firm goal for cuts needed to fight dangerous climate change.

June 7, 2007
Reuters

HEILIGENDAMM, Germany, June 7 (Reuters) - World leaders meeting in Germany have agreed to pursue "substantial" cuts in greenhouse gas emissions and integrate U.S. climate plans within the established U.N. process, an EU source said.

"They agreed on the need for substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions," the source told Reuters.

The United States resisted attempts by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, host of the Group of Eight (G8) summit, to set a a firm goal for cuts needed to fight dangerous climate change.

But the EU source said that in the final G8 text, leaders would acknowledge the desire of the European Union, Canada and Japan to cut emissions by at least 50 percent by 2050 -- in line with Merkel's stated target.

Earlier, U.S. President George W. Bush sought to calm tensions with Moscow ahead of a highly anticipated face-to-face meeting with Russia's Vladimir Putin at the summit.

"I repeat Russia's not a threat, they're not a military threat, they're not something that we ought to be hyperventilating about," Bush said. "What we ought to be doing is figuring out ways to work together."



Security remains tight around the summit venue, a luxury hotel in the small seaside town of Heiligendamm.

On Thursday morning police power boats chased down several smaller Greenpeace craft trying to break through the security cordon, ramming one and dumping its occupants into the Baltic.

At a morning session focused on economic issues, Merkel sat between Bush and Putin, who have exchanged public barbs on U.S. missile shield plans in the run-up to the summit.

The two presidents, smiling and looking relaxed, have not met face-to-face since before Putin launched a verbal attack on the Bush administration in February, accusing it of trying to force its will on the world and become its "single master".

Bush said he would reiterate to Putin his proposal to have Russia send generals and scientists to the United States to reassure them on his plans to put a radar system in the Czech Republic and interceptor missiles in Poland.

Washington says the shield is intended as a defence against "rogue" states like Iran and North Korea and has urged Russia to cooperate. Moscow, which suspects it could be outfitted with attack missiles or used for spying, has rejected the overtures.

As leaders met in an elegant 19th century hotel in Heiligendamm -- a resort in the former east which has struggled to recover from the ravages of the communist era -- relations between Russia and the West are at a post-Cold War low.

The missile shield is not the only issue dividing Russia, the United States and fellow G8 members Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan.

Other topics include aid to Africa and foreign policy issues ranging from Iran to Kosovo.

Curb Zone