R&T: The 911 Turbo

The Emperor · 11-08-2006, 04:43 AM

It’s been a long-standing tradition that true sports cars are equipped with manual transmissions, putting the driver in full control and enabling him to extract the utmost from his machine. Things have changed: Computers can simulate logic, and machines can manipulate things more accurately and quickly than humans. Clutch pedals and stick shifts are giving way to buttons and paddles. Increasingly, the automobile is becoming less and less in our control — anti-lock brakes with brake assist and force distribution, yaw and traction control, active suspension, electric steering with variable ratios, active cruise control — all for the better they say. But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous.
It is no surprise that Porsche’s Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip. Aside from special applications, the torque converter has always been considered a hindrance. In this case the Tiptronic even has one less gear, being a 5-speed. The 6-speed manual on the face of it should clearly out-drag the two-pedal car. Nay, it does not. Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch. This delay in building boost gives the advantage to the torque-converter-equipped Tiptronic — the gain being a tenth of a second to 60 mph despite its taller first gear.
The ability of the Tiptronic system to quickly shift gears shaves time the whole length of the strip — pulling out two more tenths. This is because the turbo stays under load while the Tiptronic shifts — keeping the 480 bhp at work pushing the car. In contrast, the manual is given pause three times in the quarter- mile as the driver changes gears.
Aside from transmissions, the two cars we tested were identical. The red one is the Tiptronic. The Tiptronic’s shifts are not made with a conventional paddle system. Instead, Porsche opted for rocker-type switches on both left and right sides of the steering wheel, located directly under the thumbs. The rocker switches allow up- and downshifting with either hand.
We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don’t like it. We continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn’t lost.

Source: - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

-----------------------------------

Imhotep Evil · 11-08-2006, 04:51 AM

Needs more power-torque and a fancy gearbox.

The Emperor · 11-08-2006, 04:56 AM

I must admit i'm a bit surprised with their review... Usually, they say the best about Porsches, but here...:

Quote:

Originally Posted by R&T

But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous.

I do appreciate they don't like too many electronics found in the new Turbo, but according to them, Porsche lost the best of itself - driving fun.

Imhotep Evil · 11-08-2006, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TycoonGTR

I must admit i'm a bit surprised with their review... Usually, they say the best about Porsches, but here...:

I do appreciate they don't like too many electronics found in the new Turbo, but according to them, Porsche lost the best of itself - driving fun.

This is what every review said in one way or another.
Why is it a surprise to you ?!

The Emperor · 11-08-2006, 05:05 AM

Read my post and you'll have your answer!!!

Here, Car and Driver thinks the same...

Quote:

Originally Posted by C&D

Does this mean we'd choose an automatic over a manual in the Turbo? Unless you're planning to spend lots of time at a drag strip, where the all-wheel-drive system might not survive frequent four-wheel burnouts, the answer is no. While at the track the five-speed Tiptronic shifts smoothly and quickly, around town it can become bothersome. First off, Porsche automatics prefer to start in second gear, which seems strange coming from such a performance-oriented company. That means if you dig deep enough into the throttle from a standstill, you get a clunky 2-1 downshift. And the upshifts are often less than crisp, more of a slurring between gears. Also, we'd prefer proper shift paddles-left for downshifts, right for upshifts-mounted behind the steering wheel, instead of the Turbo's toggle switches on the front of the wheel that control shifts in both directions. And, not surprisingly, the response time is noticeably slower than automated manuals like Audi's rapid-shifting dual-clutch DSG. Not helping the Tiptronic's case is the $3420 option price, but maybe at the Turbo's starting price of $123,695, a few grand isn't important.

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

Imhotep Evil · 11-08-2006, 05:11 AM

Again why is this a surprise ?!

The Emperor · 11-08-2006, 05:12 AM

Dude, you're getting on my nerves, honestly. I've told you, read my post!

drronh · 11-08-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TycoonGTR

I must admit i'm a bit surprised with their review... Usually, they say the best about Porsches, but here...:

I do appreciate they don't like too many electronics found in the new Turbo, but according to them, Porsche lost the best of itself - driving fun.

It has been going this way for quite some time now. The GT3 is and has become what the turbo used to be.

Imhotep Evil · 11-08-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drronh

It has been going this way for quite some time now. The GT3 is and has become what the turbo used to be.

I belive that the GT2 is what the Turbo used to be.

I've talked about this on several forums, and old Porsche fans/owners/racers/magazine editorialists have been complaing about every Porsche since the 993 was replaced (or 964 Turbo).

Hell some don't even consider the 993 Turbo since its AWD.

Centurion · 11-08-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

I belive that the GT2 is what the Turbo used to be.

I've talked about this on several forums, and old Porsche fans/owners/racers/magazine editorialists have been complaing about every Porsche since the 993 was replaced (or 964 Turbo).

Hell some don't even consider the 993 Turbo since its AWD.

But the GT3 is more fun to drive then ever and no magazine has said anything negative about it.

11-08-2006, 04:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
The Emperor Bionic Jive Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Where noone has gone before... Posts: 9,160 My Mood: Thanks: 1,422 Thanked 1,587 Times in 962 Posts	R&T: The 911 Turbo It’s been a long-standing tradition that true sports cars are equipped with manual transmissions, putting the driver in full control and enabling him to extract the utmost from his machine. Things have changed: Computers can simulate logic, and machines can manipulate things more accurately and quickly than humans. Clutch pedals and stick shifts are giving way to buttons and paddles. Increasingly, the automobile is becoming less and less in our control — anti-lock brakes with brake assist and force distribution, yaw and traction control, active suspension, electric steering with variable ratios, active cruise control — all for the better they say. But lost is the necessity for skills that once made racing drivers famous. It is no surprise that Porsche’s Tiptronic electronically controlled automatic transmission is good, but it is a surprise to learn that it makes the 2007 911 Turbo quicker down the drag strip. Aside from special applications, the torque converter has always been considered a hindrance. In this case the Tiptronic even has one less gear, being a 5-speed. The 6-speed manual on the face of it should clearly out-drag the two-pedal car. Nay, it does not. Power-braking the Tiptronic loads the turbo and builds boost before the car leaves the line. To build boost in the manual-equipped car would require excessive slipping of the clutch. This delay in building boost gives the advantage to the torque-converter-equipped Tiptronic — the gain being a tenth of a second to 60 mph despite its taller first gear. The ability of the Tiptronic system to quickly shift gears shaves time the whole length of the strip — pulling out two more tenths. This is because the turbo stays under load while the Tiptronic shifts — keeping the 480 bhp at work pushing the car. In contrast, the manual is given pause three times in the quarter- mile as the driver changes gears. Aside from transmissions, the two cars we tested were identical. The red one is the Tiptronic. The Tiptronic’s shifts are not made with a conventional paddle system. Instead, Porsche opted for rocker-type switches on both left and right sides of the steering wheel, located directly under the thumbs. The rocker switches allow up- and downshifting with either hand. We know the automatic car is faster, but we still don’t like it. We continue to prefer the traditional method of making a car go fast and hope the art of driving isn’t lost. Source: - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER -----------------------------------

11-08-2006, 04:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
Imhotep Evil Devotee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,898 Thanks: 255 Thanked 154 Times in 116 Posts	Re: R&T: The 911 Turbo Needs more power-torque and a fancy gearbox.

11-08-2006, 05:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
Imhotep Evil Devotee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,898 Thanks: 255 Thanked 154 Times in 116 Posts	Re: R&T: The 911 Turbo Again why is this a surprise ?!

11-08-2006, 05:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
The Emperor Bionic Jive Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Where noone has gone before... Posts: 9,160 My Mood: Thanks: 1,422 Thanked 1,587 Times in 962 Posts	Re: R&T: The 911 Turbo Dude, you're getting on my nerves, honestly. I've told you, read my post!

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