What do YOU think the term "African American" means

Deutsch · 07-04-2008, 08:35 PM

I'm not going to provide much of an explanation until there have been enough votes cast. This really has nothing to do with "Black" people specifically per se but I believe it will make a huge point in an even bigger picture later as this thread continues. So please, provide your feedback!

Hypersonic · 07-05-2008, 12:52 AM

I always understood it to mean Black Americans of African decent -- particularly people whose ancestors were brought to the US as slaves.

The US is a fascinating country in terms of its race-relations.

Everything gets turned into a race issue in the States ...which is unfortunate.

It should never have mattered what race Obama is ....he should be judged on his merits ...unfortunatetly, in the US this would never happen. On the one hand you've got red necks who hate the Republicans (because of Lincoln abolishing black slavery) ...but would never vote for Obama because he is black, and on the other hand you've got Oprah Winfrey and a whole bunch of white liberals who will vote Obama simply because he is not "another white guy" .....not all white guys are assholes you know

In other countries, I don't hear people refer to themselves by their descendent's origins -- like African Frenchman or Arab Englishman -- they just say they are French or British, etc. But in the US, many Americans, whose parents were born and raised in the US, refer to themselves as Italian, African, Irish, etc. -- why is this?

The most interesting thing is, in the US, despite a fair amount of racism, different races appear to integrate much better than in many other countries. In recent times we have seen how much resentment there is among certain ethnic communities in France and Britain.

Deutsch · 07-05-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypersonic

The US is a fascinating country in terms of its race-relations.

Everything gets turned into a race issue in the States ...which is unfortunate.

It should never have mattered what race Obama is ....he should be judged on his merits ...unfortunatetly, in the US this would never happen. On the one hand you've got red necks who hate the Republicans (because of Lincoln abolishing black slavery) ...but would never vote for Obama because he is black, and on the other hand you've got Oprah Winfrey and a whole bunch of white liberals who will vote Obama simply because he is not "another white guy" .....not all white guys are assholes you know

In other countries, I don't hear people refer to themselves by their descendent's origins -- like African Frenchman or Arab Englishman -- they just say they are French or British, etc. But in the US, many Americans, whose parents were born and raised in the US, refer to themselves as Italian, African, Irish, etc. -- why is this?

I haven't been here in a long time you know, so I don't know that I'm going to get much traffic (if there's any here). So, now I introduce to you the explanation as to the reasoning of this historical short sighted type casting, piegon holing practice done only but one place in the world, the good ol' U.S. of A.

Quote:

To be considered black in the United States not even half of one's ancestry must be African black. But will one-fourth do, or one-eighth, or less? The nation's answer to the question 'Who is black?" has long been that a black is any person with any known African black ancestry. This definition reflects the long experience with slavery and later with Jim Crow segregation. In the South it became known as the "one-drop rule,'' meaning that a single drop of "black blood" makes a person a black. It is also known as the "one black ancestor rule," some courts have called it the "traceable amount rule," and anthropologists call it the "hypo-descent rule," meaning that racially mixed persons are assigned the status of the subordinate group. This definition emerged from the American South to become the nation's definition, generally accepted by whites and blacks. Blacks had no other choice. As we shall see, this American cultural definition of blacks is taken for granted as readily by judges, affirmative action officers, and black protesters as it is by Ku Klux Klansmen.

Let us not he confused by terminology. At present the usual statement of the one-drop rule is in terms of "black blood" or black ancestry, while not so long ago it referred to "Negro blood" or ancestry. The term "black" rapidly replaced "Negro" in general usage in the United States as the black power movement peaked at the end of the 1960s, but the black and Negro populations are the same. The term "black" is used in this book for persons with any black African lineage, not just for unmixed members of populations from sub-Saharan Africa. The term "Negro," which is used in certain historical contexts, means the same thing. Terms such as "African black," "unmixed Negro," and "all black" are used here to refer to unmixed blacks descended from African populations.

We must also pay attention to the terms "mulatto" and "colored." The term "mulatto" was originally used to mean the offspring of a "pure African Negro" and a "pure white." Although the root meaning of mulatto, in Spanish, is "hybrid," "mulatto" came to include the children of unions between whites and so-called "mixed Negroes." For example, Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglass, with slave mothers and white fathers, were referred to as mulattoes. To whatever extent their mothers were part white, these men were more than half white. Douglass was evidently part Indian as well, and he looked it. Washington had reddish hair and gray eyes. At the time of the American Revolution, many of the founding fathers had some very light slaves, including some who appeared to be white. The term "colored" seemed for a time to refer only to mulattoes, especially lighter ones, but later it became a euphemism for darker Negroes, even including unmixed blacks. With widespread racial mixture, "Negro" came to mean any slave or descendant of a slave, no matter how much mixed. Eventually in the United States, the terms mulatto, colored, Negro, black, and African American all came to mean people with any known black African ancestry. Mulattoes are racially mixed, to whatever degree, while the terms black, Negro, African American, and colored include both mulattoes and unmixed blacks. As we shall see, these terms have quite different meanings in other countries.

Whites in the United States need some help envisioning the American black experience with ancestral fractions. At the beginning of miscegenation between two populations presumed to be racially pure, quadroons appear in the second generation of continuing mixing with whites, and octoroons in the third. A quadroon is one-fourth African black and thus easily classed as black in the United States, yet three of this person's four grandparents are white. An octoroon has seven white great-grandparents out of eight and usually looks white or almost so. Most parents of black American children in recent decades have themselves been racially mixed, but often the fractions get complicated because the earlier details of the mixing were obscured generations ago. Like so many white Americans, black people are forced to speculate about some of the fractions-- one-eighth this, three-sixteenths that, and so on....

Uniqueness Of The One-Drop Rule

Not only does the one-drop rule apply to no other group than American blacks, but apparently the rule is unique in that it is found only in the United States and not in any other nation in the world. In fact, definitions of who is black vary quite sharply from country to country, and for this reason people in other countries often express consternation about our definition. James Baldwin relates a revealing incident that occurred in 1956 at the Conference of Negro-African Writers and Artists held in Paris. The head of the delegation of writers and artists from the United States was John Davis. The French chairperson introduced Davis and then asked him why he considered himself Negro, since he certainly did not look like one. Baldwin wrote, "He is a Negro, of course, from the remarkable legal point of view which obtains in the United States, but more importantly, as he tried to make clear to his interlocutor, he was a Negro by choice and by depth of involvement--by experience, in fact."

The phenomenon known as "passing as white" is difficult to explain in other countries or to foreign students. Typical questions are: "Shouldn't Americans say that a person who is passing as white is white, or nearly all white, and has previously been passing as black?" or "To be consistent, shouldn't you say that someone who is one-eighth white is passing as black?" or "Why is there so much concern, since the so-called blacks who pass take so little negroid ancestry with them?" Those who ask such questions need to realize that "passing" is much more a social phenomenon than a biological one, reflecting the nation's unique definition of what makes a person black. The concept of "passing" rests on the one-drop rule and on folk beliefs about race and miscegenation, not on biological or historical fact.

The black experience with passing as white in the United States contrasts with the experience of other ethnic minorities that have features that are clearly non-caucasoid. The concept of passing applies only to blacks--consistent with the nation's unique definition of the group. A person who is one-fourth or less American Indian or Korean or Filipino is not regarded as passing if he or she intermarries and joins fully the life of the dominant community, so the minority ancestry need not be hidden. It is often suggested that the key reason for this is that the physical differences between these other groups and whites are less pronounced than the physical differences between African blacks and whites, and therefore are less threatening to whites. However, keep in mind that the one-drop rule and anxiety about passing originated during slavery and later received powerful reinforcement under the Jim Crow system.

For the physically visible groups other than blacks, miscegenation promotes assimilation, despite barriers of prejudice and discrimination during two or more generations of racial mixing. As noted above, when ancestry in one of these racial minority groups does not exceed one-fourth, a person is not defined solely as a member of that group. Masses of white European immigrants have climbed the class ladder not only through education but also with the help of close personal relationships in the dominant community, intermarriage, and ultimately full cultural and social assimilation. Young people tend to marry people they meet in the same informal social circles. For visibly non-caucasoid minorities other than blacks in the United States, this entire route to full assimilation is slow but possible.

For all persons of any known black lineage, however, assimilation is blocked and is not promoted by miscegenation. Barriers to full opportunity and participation for blacks are still formidable, and a fractionally black person cannot escape these obstacles without passing as white and cutting off all ties to the black family and community. The pain of this separation, and condemnation by the black family and community, are major reasons why many or most of those who could pass as white choose not to. Loss of security within the minority community, and fear and distrust of the white world are also factors.

It should now be apparent that the definition of a black person as one with any trace at all of black African ancestry is inextricably woven into the history of the United States. It incorporates beliefs once used to justify slavery and later used to buttress the castelike Jim Crow system of segregation. Developed in the South, the definition of "Negro" (now black) spread and became the nation's social and legal definition. Because blacks are defined according to the one-drop rule, they are a socially constructed category in which there is wide variation in racial traits and therefore not a race group in the scientific sense. However, because that category has a definite status position in the society it has become a self-conscious social group with an ethnic identity.

The one-drop rule has long been taken for granted throughout the United States by whites and blacks alike, and the federal courts have taken "judicial notice" of it as being a matter of common knowledge. State courts have generally upheld the one-drop rule, but some have limited the definition to one thirty-second or one-sixteenth or one-eighth black ancestry, or made other limited exceptions for persons with both Indian and black ancestry. Most Americans seem unaware that this definition of blacks is extremely unusual in other countries, perhaps even unique to the United States, and that Americans define no other minority group in a similar way. . . .

We must first distinguish racial traits from cultural traits, since they are so often confused with each other. As defined in physical anthropology and biology, races are categories of human beings based on average differences in physical traits that are transmitted by the genes not by blood. Culture is a shared pattern of behavior and beliefs that are learned and transmitted through social communication. An ethnic group is a group with a sense of cultural identity, such as Czech or Jewish Americans, but it may also be a racially distinctive group. A group that is racially distinctive in society may be an ethnic group as well, but not necessarily. Although racially mixed, most blacks in the United States are physically distinguishable from whites, but they are also an ethnic group because of the distinctive culture they have developed within the general American framework.

Fact is what most people do not know is that most of the people you see as "black" in this country, are only partially black, but more or less not black at all. "African American" is really a combination of racial groups including those of black African decent (think Mestizo Latino).

Thus as mentioned above any one part of your heritage with black African in the equation makes you black. However, this is really a method implemented by a white majority to control and marginalize the "black" race (something most people don't know/get including the majority of the black community). So you have light skinned children whom you'll never find a similar skin texture of in Africa calling themselves "black" when they really come from a multi cultural/ multi racial heritage.

The only reason why many blacks choose to identify as "black" or "African American" is because they've been pigeon holed, stereotyped and marginalized throughout their history, ostracized by groups not only in the U.S. but around the world because of a dominant white and racist global perspective (white superiority) held by people that are not even white that says in sum, “black is bad, inferior, stupid, ugly, etc”. Therefore many who have been clumped under this terminology have fought to take back a sense of self worth they had been robbed of (and to a great extent still are) by reclaiming their black heritage. Many blacks refuse to acknowledge the fact that they come from a multi racial (mostly partial European) heritage because doing so is seen by many within the community as disowning your black African heritage as if you have some problem with it.

In my own discovery I have found that disowning my multi racial heritage works against me rather than for me in many ways that most just do not consider, such as something as simple as education; by labeling myself as "black" I'm not acknowledging other parts of my racial/cultural identity that may be of great value to me, such as having multiple Native American tribes that are clearly represented in family records. I think the black community has to come to a point where they can say, "yes, we still have challenges in this country, but this country is ours as much as it is any other American citizen, but especially us since we've been here since the foundation of this country's history. We are American." My ancestors were not ALL black, many of them European and Indigenous people of the Americas. I am American, not African American.

As you can tell I could go on and on about this. I will say this though, if you look hard enough beyond all the superficial aspects of politics and society and you study history and human genetics you'll find that we are truly all connected. I'm sure if it were possible and a giant human family tree were created you and I and everyone else would probably have at least one common ancestor. Some of us are just more closely related than others

Hypersonic · 07-05-2008, 01:15 AM

Very interesting Deutsch.

OK, I know you are mixed race -- just roughly, what percentage of you is black/white ...and what do you identify with/as ...personally?

Deutsch · 07-05-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypersonic

Very interesting Deutsch.

OK, I know you are mixed race -- just roughly, what percentage of you is black/white ...and what do you identify with/as ...personally?

I'm American, period. I have all ancestors coming from different places all over the world. I had a percentage but can't remember, don't think it matters much anyway, at least to me.

Most people tend to describe me as black or mixed, but you can honestly come to your own conclusions. I'm not losing any sleep.

Put it this way (something most people don't know again, I guess the media wants the pigeon holing); if I were to go to Africa and tell a native black African, "I'm 'black'" they'd look at me and laugh, because as is I'm not black because I'm not all African and to them that is clearly visible. Here in America an image and stigma has been created for what is 'black" by non-blacks. Especially interesting when you think about that. And because this standard of blackness was created by someone else, someone who was NOT black is why I don't identify this way. At the end of the day I'm pure American.

Hypersonic · 07-05-2008, 02:41 AM

^ good for you Deutsch. I think if you can take the best from all your ancestry that is a good thing. It is unfortunate that mixed race people often face racism from several places at once -- but this institutionalized one-drop rule is blatantly racist ...because it was obviously conceived by prejudiced whites to discriminate against non-whites.

This whole argument over purity is ridiculous -- I am mixed race ...but at least 90% white ...nobody would ever know that I had some Polynesian heritage by looking at me.

Remy Zero · 07-05-2008, 08:43 AM

well, all i know, mix marriage between a black and white produces good looking kids

shonguiz · 07-05-2008, 01:09 PM

For me it's the politcaly correct term refering to black people.

Deutsch · 07-05-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shonguiz

For me it's the politcaly correct term refering to black people.

Actually it's not. Jokes on you. This is about what I'd expect from a sheltered European, or any sheltered person.

Hypersonic · 07-05-2008, 11:53 PM

^Hmm, as diplomatic as ever I see

View Poll Results: What do you think the term "African American" means??
Decendants of black Africans living in America.	4	66.67%
Individuals possesing a mixture of "races" including African.	1	16.67%
Both.	1	16.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

07-04-2008, 08:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Deutsch Aficionado Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: L.A. Posts: 5,362 Thanks: 301 Thanked 468 Times in 240 Posts	What do YOU think the term "African American" means I'm not going to provide much of an explanation until there have been enough votes cast. This really has nothing to do with "Black" people specifically per se but I believe it will make a huge point in an even bigger picture later as this thread continues. So please, provide your feedback!

07-05-2008, 12:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Hypersonic Connoisseur Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5,528 Thanks: 1,031 Thanked 852 Times in 524 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means I always understood it to mean Black Americans of African decent -- particularly people whose ancestors were brought to the US as slaves. The US is a fascinating country in terms of its race-relations. Everything gets turned into a race issue in the States ...which is unfortunate. It should never have mattered what race Obama is ....he should be judged on his merits ...unfortunatetly, in the US this would never happen. On the one hand you've got red necks who hate the Republicans (because of Lincoln abolishing black slavery) ...but would never vote for Obama because he is black, and on the other hand you've got Oprah Winfrey and a whole bunch of white liberals who will vote Obama simply because he is not "another white guy" .....not all white guys are assholes you know In other countries, I don't hear people refer to themselves by their descendent's origins -- like African Frenchman or Arab Englishman -- they just say they are French or British, etc. But in the US, many Americans, whose parents were born and raised in the US, refer to themselves as Italian, African, Irish, etc. -- why is this? The most interesting thing is, in the US, despite a fair amount of racism, different races appear to integrate much better than in many other countries. In recent times we have seen how much resentment there is among certain ethnic communities in France and Britain.

07-05-2008, 01:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
Hypersonic Connoisseur Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5,528 Thanks: 1,031 Thanked 852 Times in 524 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means Very interesting Deutsch. OK, I know you are mixed race -- just roughly, what percentage of you is black/white ...and what do you identify with/as ...personally?

07-05-2008, 02:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hypersonic Connoisseur Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5,528 Thanks: 1,031 Thanked 852 Times in 524 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means ^ good for you Deutsch. I think if you can take the best from all your ancestry that is a good thing. It is unfortunate that mixed race people often face racism from several places at once -- but this institutionalized one-drop rule is blatantly racist ...because it was obviously conceived by prejudiced whites to discriminate against non-whites. This whole argument over purity is ridiculous -- I am mixed race ...but at least 90% white ...nobody would ever know that I had some Polynesian heritage by looking at me.

07-05-2008, 08:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
Remy Zero Enthusiast Join Date: May 2007 Location: Malaysia Posts: 456 My Mood: Thanks: 188 Thanked 439 Times in 237 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means well, all i know, mix marriage between a black and white produces good looking kids

07-05-2008, 01:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
shonguiz Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,469 Thanks: 179 Thanked 293 Times in 176 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means For me it's the politcaly correct term refering to black people.

07-05-2008, 11:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hypersonic Connoisseur Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5,528 Thanks: 1,031 Thanked 852 Times in 524 Posts	Re: What do YOU think the term "African American" means ^Hmm, as diplomatic as ever I see