McLaren & Mercedes-Benz...

Deutsch · 10-23-2005, 01:35 AM

what's the deal? are they still on? I hope so, we need more Mc Clarens, and besides that, MB poored too much money into MCC to just dump them that quickly.

Mr. Mercedes · 10-23-2005, 12:51 PM

I think in the long term we're likely to see more products from them. But for now Mercedes is too busy fixing and cleaning in house to spend any time and money on sports car development. Also reports suggest that McLaren has suffered a major engineering talent exodus since the SLR project, and few of the original engineers remain.

Merc1 · 10-23-2005, 04:27 PM

I think the above is correct as to why we aren't going to see any more McMercs anytime soon, but I too hold out hope for a some future products.

I think a range of real sports cars would have done wonders for Mercedes' image, more so than trying to exploint every lower-priced niche in the market - which seems to be the current think at Mercedes. This trio of sports cars, a F430 fighter, 575M fighter and SLR replacement would have done wonders for Mercedes overall image. Much more so than the A and B-Classes. Mercedes should think and behave "premium" at all times. The hell with chasing BMW for volume in everything, just make better more exclusive (expensive) car.

The only thing is that now the genius behind Mclaren, including Gordan Murray has left.

Let me go a little further here. Mercedes should have let him and his team make another F1 in the SLR, not an automatic only GT car. Big mistake imo. It should have been close to the F1 in ability with an automatic trans option and a regular manual standard or some type of DSG type tranny. This is one instance where the regular Mercedes guidelines about ride comfort should have been compromised a little bit more, no make that a good deal more in order to make a true Ferrari beater. I like the SLR, but I think when all is said an done it will be seen as a great chance fumbled when it came to making a Ferrari beater.

To make a true Mercedes sports car it needs to be AMG on the engine, Mercedes on the quality/interior/styling and Mclaren on the chassis, tranny, engine tunning along with AMG supplying it. Thats how you make a Mercedes that Ferriari/Porsche/Lambo owners would salivate over. Arguably they don't do this over the SLR, as awesome a car it is.

Just think about the new AMG V8 tuned to 550 hp in a lightweight car like the F430 and styled by Brunno Sacco after he was given a directive to come up with something different and bold, but beatifully Mercedes. After all he is Italian! Then think about a V10 or V12 of large displacement that revs in a Enzo/CGT fighter with stunning styling. I know this could have been done, but now with the talent reportedly so thin at Mclaren it isn't going to happen.

M

Hypersonic · 10-23-2005, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc1

Let me go a little further here. Mercedes should have let him and his team make another F1 in the SLR, not an automatic only GT car. Big mistake imo. It should have been close to the F1 in ability with an automatic trans option and a regular manual standard or some type of DSG type tranny. This is one instance where the regular Mercedes guidelines about ride comfort should have been compromised a little bit more, no make that a good deal more in order to make a true Ferrari beater. I like the SLR, but I think when all is said an done it will be seen as a great chance fumbled when it came to making a Ferrari beater.

That is precisely why I have said I think the SLR is overated in the past. Marcus, once again we are in total agreement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc1

............and styled by Brunno Sacco....... After all he is Italian! M

Yes M, thank God for the Italians - their creations don't always exhibit perfect good taste (or good sense

), but the Italian culture, probably more than any other, celebrates beauty in all it's different forms and inspires emotional and passionate creativity.

Alx · 10-23-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roberto

That is precisely why I have said I think the SLR is overated in the past. Marcus, once again we are in total agreement.

Yes M, thank God for the Italians - their creations don't always exhibit perfect good taste (or good sense

), but the Italian culture, probably more than any other, celebrates beauty in all it's different forms and inspires emotional and passionate creativity.

I absolutley agree.... I feel the SLR is just not that hot. rare and exotic yes, but lacks the beauty of Ferrari for ex.

Yannis · 10-23-2005, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roberto

Yes M, thank God for the Italians - their creations don't always exhibit perfect good taste (or good sense

), but the Italian culture, probably more than any other, celebrates beauty in all it's different forms and inspires emotional and passionate creativity.

It's no coincidence that the two greatest ,world famous sports car makers are Italian. I 'm talking about Ferrari and Lamborghini of course.

Mr. Mercedes · 10-25-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc1

I think the above is correct as to why we aren't going to see any more McMercs anytime soon, but I too hold out hope for a some future products.

I think a range of real sports cars would have done wonders for Mercedes' image, more so than trying to exploint every lower-priced niche in the market - which seems to be the current think at Mercedes. This trio of sports cars, a F430 fighter, 575M fighter and SLR replacement would have done wonders for Mercedes overall image. Much more so than the A and B-Classes. Mercedes should think and behave "premium" at all times. The hell with chasing BMW for volume in everything, just make better more exclusive (expensive) car.

The only thing is that now the genius behind Mclaren, including Gordan Murray has left.

Let me go a little further here. Mercedes should have let him and his team make another F1 in the SLR, not an automatic only GT car. Big mistake imo. It should have been close to the F1 in ability with an automatic trans option and a regular manual standard or some type of DSG type tranny. This is one instance where the regular Mercedes guidelines about ride comfort should have been compromised a little bit more, no make that a good deal more in order to make a true Ferrari beater. I like the SLR, but I think when all is said an done it will be seen as a great chance fumbled when it came to making a Ferrari beater.

To make a true Mercedes sports car it needs to be AMG on the engine, Mercedes on the quality/interior/styling and Mclaren on the chassis, tranny, engine tunning along with AMG supplying it. Thats how you make a Mercedes that Ferriari/Porsche/Lambo owners would salivate over. Arguably they don't do this over the SLR, as awesome a car it is.

Just think about the new AMG V8 tuned to 550 hp in a lightweight car like the F430 and styled by Brunno Sacco after he was given a directive to come up with something different and bold, but beatifully Mercedes. After all he is Italian! Then think about a V10 or V12 of large displacement that revs in a Enzo/CGT fighter with stunning styling. I know this could have been done, but now with the talent reportedly so thin at Mclaren it isn't going to happen.

M

Totally Agree Merc1.

Perhaps in 5 years or so Mercedes will resurect their plans for a premium range of sports cars.

Imhotep Evil · 10-25-2005, 10:14 AM

Me too.
And the A, B and R klasse weren't meant to chade BMW, since they don't have anything similar.
As for the volume stuff, well that desicion was done in the 70.
Also after the 300 SL, MB never really had a true sportcar to compete with the likes of Ferrari. The following SL were expensive and (some) were badly spanked
by the likes of Jaguar E-Type, or its 3 times more expensive Ferrari counterpart.
But good, realiable and a little dull cars were perahps what MB had in mind with the SLs, nowbody really placed them next to the E-Type, DB4 Zagato, 250 GTO
or Miurna.
Sadly, MBs decision on the curent SLR desapointed me. A was expecting a real CGT/Enzo/(and now) Zonda F fighter, a car worthy of the SLR badge (= super sport thoroughbred).
Sad to hear that Gordan Murray left.

10-23-2005, 01:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
Deutsch Aficionado Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: L.A. Posts: 5,362 Thanks: 301 Thanked 468 Times in 240 Posts	McLaren & Mercedes-Benz... what's the deal? are they still on? I hope so, we need more Mc Clarens, and besides that, MB poored too much money into MCC to just dump them that quickly.

10-23-2005, 12:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mr. Mercedes Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 1,285 Thanks: 96 Thanked 77 Times in 52 Posts	Re: McClaren & Mercedes Benz... I think in the long term we're likely to see more products from them. But for now Mercedes is too busy fixing and cleaning in house to spend any time and money on sports car development. Also reports suggest that McLaren has suffered a major engineering talent exodus since the SLR project, and few of the original engineers remain.

10-23-2005, 04:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Merc1 Contributor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Aurora IL USA Posts: 4,955 Thanks: 363 Thanked 672 Times in 346 Posts	Re: McClaren & Mercedes Benz... I think the above is correct as to why we aren't going to see any more McMercs anytime soon, but I too hold out hope for a some future products. I think a range of real sports cars would have done wonders for Mercedes' image, more so than trying to exploint every lower-priced niche in the market - which seems to be the current think at Mercedes. This trio of sports cars, a F430 fighter, 575M fighter and SLR replacement would have done wonders for Mercedes overall image. Much more so than the A and B-Classes. Mercedes should think and behave "premium" at all times. The hell with chasing BMW for volume in everything, just make better more exclusive (expensive) car. The only thing is that now the genius behind Mclaren, including Gordan Murray has left. Let me go a little further here. Mercedes should have let him and his team make another F1 in the SLR, not an automatic only GT car. Big mistake imo. It should have been close to the F1 in ability with an automatic trans option and a regular manual standard or some type of DSG type tranny. This is one instance where the regular Mercedes guidelines about ride comfort should have been compromised a little bit more, no make that a good deal more in order to make a true Ferrari beater. I like the SLR, but I think when all is said an done it will be seen as a great chance fumbled when it came to making a Ferrari beater. To make a true Mercedes sports car it needs to be AMG on the engine, Mercedes on the quality/interior/styling and Mclaren on the chassis, tranny, engine tunning along with AMG supplying it. Thats how you make a Mercedes that Ferriari/Porsche/Lambo owners would salivate over. Arguably they don't do this over the SLR, as awesome a car it is. Just think about the new AMG V8 tuned to 550 hp in a lightweight car like the F430 and styled by Brunno Sacco after he was given a directive to come up with something different and bold, but beatifully Mercedes. After all he is Italian! Then think about a V10 or V12 of large displacement that revs in a Enzo/CGT fighter with stunning styling. I know this could have been done, but now with the talent reportedly so thin at Mclaren it isn't going to happen. M Last edited by Merc1; 10-23-2005 at 04:34 PM.

10-25-2005, 10:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Imhotep Evil Devotee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 248 Thanked 150 Times in 113 Posts	Re: McLaren & Mercedes Benz... Me too. And the A, B and R klasse weren't meant to chade BMW, since they don't have anything similar. As for the volume stuff, well that desicion was done in the 70. Also after the 300 SL, MB never really had a true sportcar to compete with the likes of Ferrari. The following SL were expensive and (some) were badly spanked by the likes of Jaguar E-Type, or its 3 times more expensive Ferrari counterpart. But good, realiable and a little dull cars were perahps what MB had in mind with the SLs, nowbody really placed them next to the E-Type, DB4 Zagato, 250 GTO or Miurna. Sadly, MBs decision on the curent SLR desapointed me. A was expecting a real CGT/Enzo/(and now) Zonda F fighter, a car worthy of the SLR badge (= super sport thoroughbred). Sad to hear that Gordan Murray left.

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