Mr. Mercedes

Right IE, so basically you just verified my comments which you thought were the stupidest things ever said on this forum. Ok It may be going a bit far to say they are one and the same, but the main point was this so called Israeli military machine wouldn't be able to hold a candle to its current form were in not for the US.

Curb Zone

 

The Artist

yep i agree everyone has their reasons to fight in a war.. some get fooled into doing it..and some do it by their own will..

Imhotep Evil

OK, let's clarify a little.

1. America started helping Israel since the 60s. There were arab-israelian wars before the 60s.

2. While America aided Israel with money and weapons, the Soviet Union/Easthern block aided the arab countries.

For example, in the 60s, the soviets had given Egypt an Air Force twice as big as that of Israel.

But it was in discipline, training, morale, general competence, the coordination with intelligence in the developement of tatics and strategy that the Israeli IDF far surpassed its arab counter-parts, thus allowing Israel to defeat them.

And while you claim that without America Israeli IDF could not hold a candle, that's wrong, because its discipline, experience, competence, witch makes it perhaps the finest in the world, simply won't disapear at the snap of 2 fingers.

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Sadly, just as I predicted.

Osnabrueck

For the life of me, I don't understand why the US has gone through all the trouble of inserting itself into the messy territorial despute that is the Arab Israeli conflict. Or, taking it a step further, why we're so compelled to go to bat for Isreal.

From a geopolitical point of view, I don't see what the US has gained. We've reaped the ire of an increasingly radicalized Muslim populace, many of whom are willing to die for their ideology. So what gives? Is is that we just have a very effective pro-Isreali lobby in the US?

I guess it's too late to conjure an effective solution to either the conflict, or the tangentially related "war on Terror." Elements within the Muslim world are very radicalized to the point where, no matter what action the US takes in the future, there will always be the looming threat of terrorist attacks.

Isreal moved out of Gaza, which I thought was the right move. But now what have they gained? Rocket attacks. So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I accept that even without Isreal sitting smack dab in the middle of it all, the middle east wouldn't be all peaches and cream. In fact, I think Isreal serves as a very convenient distraction for certain governments. Were it not for all this guff to get worked up over they might focus on domestic matters and make an entirely different kind of stir.

So I'm going nowhere with this post real fast. Um... I guess my point is that the Israelis will never have respite from their particular situation until "they" somehow realize that their notion of a sovereign, pseudo-theocratic Jewish state had some very serious problems from the get-go. You can't brow-beat your neighbors into complicity any more than you can buy true love.

The Irish and the English were at each other throats for over 700 years. We should learn a lesson from them.

Imhotep Evil

Great post.

OK first, what has the US gained ?!
Well the question during the cold war was rather,
what America did not lose ?!

Answer:
Thru Israel it created a counter ballance to the (perceived) Soviet sphere of infuence (over Israel's arab neighbours).

Thus it (perceived that it) did not lose the entire area to the soviets (influence).

And no, even without Israel, things woudn't be all peachy.
Goverments legal or not in radical/non democratic countries do use Israel and the USA as skape goats for their own failures/mess.

klier

I agree with the first few posts The Artist made for this thread.

The Israelis are CRAZY and out of control, and the western world (Europe or the NATO/U.N, not the U.S) should for once do something.

The Artist

you know osna i belive the support for israel is beacuse many high posts and many large buisnesses are held by the jewish american community..

maybe im wrong..but i like to belive that the jewish ppl all over the world are very keen on helping their own kind.. wich is gr8 kudos to them

Hypersonic

That's for sure ...the radicals don't have much time for the Saudi Royal family, Qatar, Kuwait, or The UAE, either ...even Egypt has internal problems.

Michael

This is very true. Despite the fact that the UAE has advanced so much and is so wealthy they still have social and at times political problems.

I am going to try right to redirect the topic towards what this was meant for. I have a question for all of you who have participated and those that will. Here goes:

With both sides heating up, what would be YOUR solution to the problem?

1. Let the battle continue
2. Have the US intervene
3. Iran intervene
4. Orders from the UN taken into consideration and followed?
5. Your solution?

What do you think can halt this devating and ever growing battle?

Deutsch

What's the solution??? It's easier said than done (obviously) but people need to understand that it's not all about them and their "people", because you can't make one decision on a national scale in regards to foreign policy and not expect to make a large impact on the world around you. We live in an international commuinity. People need to put their pride aside and learn that this space wasn't intended just for them, otherwise... well, it would be just them and no one else. It doesn't take a politican or political science major to figure that out. Secondly, I don't think we should pin point the finger at any particular persons, or beliefs for that matter, it's people that are responsible for their actions, not ideas.

Curb Zone