Hypersonic

IE and Osna are both absolutely correct on this ...there are no real "good guys" and "bad guys" in this conflict ...except for the radical terrorist organizations and their supporters who quietly "fan the flames" in the background.

But one thing, IE, you suggest that the Israeli war machine will crush any opposition ......but I would suggest it's only a matter of time before one of Israel's many enemies finally uses a nuclear weapon against them. Unlike the west, where nukes are seen as a deterrent, in this new century of middle-eastern extremist violence, fueled by a perverted form of religious fundamentalism, nukes are not viewed as a mere deterrent ...but rather, they are seen as the solution to the problem.

Curb Zone

 

Snake Vargas

That would be a sad, sad day. I can only expect that the Israelis would respond in kind. Who knows what would happen after that.

Yeah, it's much more complex than one people group trying to eradicate another, or someone occupying someone's land.

DocM

hey guys,
lebanon remains under siege for the third day, I no longer have internet at home, i'm logging on from the connection in the hospital. the day started out quiet this morning, but now the bombing has intensified significantly this afternoon. In a town in the south 12 children were killed as they were trying to flee their homes. Went and got supplies from the local supermarket, people are really scared...they're buying supplies like there is no tomorrow. and we might have fuel shortage soon as the israelis are now targeting gas stations...
my family is seriously considering moving back to canada ( we also have canadian citizenship) but getting out of the country is very difficult and risky at the same time
still in beirut
DocM

Snake Vargas

Regardless of what we may have to say about the political situation, have no doubt that we wish you and anyone else in Lebanon safety and peace.

We hope to hear from you if it's safe convenient to do so. Take care, and let us know how it goes.

Hypersonic

I agree ..be careful DocM

....we sure live in a crazy world.

The Artist

let me put it down for you all once and all..
for me the existance of the state israel is from the start WRONG..
what the hell can ppl expect when the state is built on false grounds..

other than that the israeli war machine is made with US money..
no single country could win a war against israel..in that region.. but remember there are several countrys and no superpower..not even the US is invincible..
......

i have a theory..that some of you might belive is crazy.. but still here it is:

I belive that the US has alot to do with these attacks.. i think they told israel that they can go ahead with these attacks..and no one will bother them..
they did this beacuse of iran.. hizbollah is a shia muslim group.. and iran is a shiamuslim country.. i belive that the US are just waiting to see any kind of reaction from iran.. where they either offically try to help hizbollah/lebanon.. or just supply weapons to them..
if Iran does this.. i belive the US will have a reason to attack iran.. a reason they have been searching for desperetly the past months..

now it remains to see if iran are stupid enough to fall for this..

PS
DocM be safe man..i really really hope that there wont be any further probs for you and your fam.. take care man

Michael

First and foremost I want to repeat what I said before to DocM. I hope you stay safe and make sure you try to get out of trouble. I pray for a good outcome from this whole situation.

On to The Artist Theory...

Artist I don't think that is a crazy theory, as a matter of fact, it may be true. We will never know. However, I do think that the US is waiting to see what Iran does. Why? Well not necessarily to attack them--even though this is a possibility--but maybe to have a very good case against them so that they can bring it up agains the UN. Member states in the UN may see this as evidence of Iran and their intentions for the future and further their search or progres report. All in all, the US has a lot to do with this whether they like it or not. I truly think that they are getting assistance in logistics from the US in some way or form.

However, like I said in the past post, I really hope that the US does not make the same mistake they made with Nixon, where in assisting the Israeli's the world saw very very clearly that they were flying in ammunition, supplies, etc.

Today I was watching CNN and I saw the ambassador to Israel talking, and he was basically saying that he agreed with Russia and China in that their force is excessive, but that he would say that it is not excessive if it were to be compared to force used by Russia or China defending themselves. So, they are trying to play politics when people are dying. They are trying to say that they are completely justified because in their view they are just denting the enemy as compared to the US, Russia, or China would be demolishing their enemy. I think they are missing the point here. I don't think you can measure things like these in proportion but rather you should take into consideration the loss of life that is happening.

Centurion

A friend of mine is in Lebanon and I hope she is all right. The Swedish government will be sending over a plane there to get its citizens back from all the destruction and agony down there.

Imhotep Evil

This has to be one of the most stupid things I've heard of this forum.
Again learn some history.

The roots of todays Israeli war machine goes back to a paramilitary force existing since the 1920s.

They were succesfull in guerilla/terorist warfare against the british after WW II (as an irony of fate, the arab terorist organisation had copied their Modus Operandi).

There was initial retiscence from the US in recocginizing Israel.
Even Marshall said that the new State of Israel would be defeated within two weeks.

Initially Israel bough equipament from Czechoslovakia. Also the ever increasing number of immigrants from Europe and the rest of the world turned the tide in
their favor in the 1948 war.

The alliance with western powers camed in 1956 with the Suez crisis.
But France and Britain were Israel's allies.
The US and Soviet Union both condemned the war, more precisely the frech-british-israelian intervention.

After that the arab countries tied the relations with Sovied Union/Eastern Block and thus as a counter ballance the US tied the relations with Israel.

While the majority of weapons are bought from the USA, and the army is well
funded and has acces to the latest and/or best weapons in the world, it's pure stupidity to say the US and Israel armies are one and the same.

Army is manditory in Israel. Once men and women (or better said teenage boys and girls) reach the age of 18, they are drafted, and for the next 3 years they become part of the IDF.

After the 3 year stage is over they become reserves, and might one they be used again.

While the Israeli army is not quantity, it is about quality. And in this area they
are perhaps the finest in the world.



1.
Not only that, in the area, there is no one single power that can defeat Israel, but there is also no alliance that can do so either.

If you would have bothered to learn a little history that you have known that the Israel fought (mostly by itself, apart from the 1956 Suez War) against alliences of arab states, and won.

And while Israel received suport from the USA, since the 60s, the arab countries received suport from the Soviet Union/Easthern block.

And while they posesed more men AND equipament/weapons/war material in wars such the 6 Days war and Yom Kippur war, they were defeated/humiliated by Israel.

2.
Don't comfuse hizbollah with Lebanon. Big mistake.
Hizbollah is a terorist organisation, witch probably because of Syria has seats in the parliament.
This is not a war against Lebanon in the classical sense, this is a war (also psyhological) against such terorist organizations and countries that suport them.

3.
Why is it that is that "the existance of the state israel is from the start WRONG.." ?!

"what the hell can ppl expect when the state is built on false grounds.."

What are these false grounds ?!

Ahmed

Right thats why theyre attacking Lebanons infastructure, or is it hizbollas infastructure theyre trying to hit but keep on missing? I dont know.

Curb Zone