The Greatest Ever? - Page 3

Imhotep Evil · 09-13-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinbo

Thanks for your incredible insight. In what way am I BSing Imhotep Evil? I've been watching Formula One with interest since the late 80's. This is my opinion and I'm perfectly justified in saying this without having someone ram their own opinion down my throat. Who are you and where the hell did you get your manners from? BS land... I mean really, dude where do you get off?

Pure conjecture, without any factual basis.

Keep your criticism in check IE, it's starting to cheese people (especially me) off.

And sorry for the harsh words.
It is really hard, because I really have great respect for you.

Alfie · 09-13-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

Schumi is one of the greatest pilots.
But the greatest ?!

I'm sorry, but someone like Fangio, won when there was actuall competion (like Stirling Moss and Co.), and when death was in the air. Every turn, every shift could mean more than loosing a position, it could mean losing a life or two. The odds back that were unbelivable. Nurburing realy was the green hell. And Spa's Au Rouge, pilots could feel in every cell of they body until finaly, those lucky enough made it.

How can Schumacher comapre to this. He was in the right time, in the right place, and with no team mate bother him. It was more the Ferrari-Brigstone Era than the Schumacher era (and again I'm not saing he's without merits).

But, I'm sorry, again, the greatest ?!
Sorry.

Alot of that makes real sense. I've always doubted Schumachers driving since his succes has alot to do with being with the right team at the right time. When he was driving with Barichello he was pretty much always right behind him and even beat him some times.

One of the greatest no doubt but there are issues I'm wondering about.

siko · 09-13-2006, 03:17 PM

I'm no fan, but Schumacher gets my vote.

Imhotep Evil · 09-13-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zonda

Alot of that makes real sense. I've always doubted Schumachers driving since his succes has alot to do with being with the right team at the right time. When he was driving with Barichello he was pretty much always right behind him and even beat him some times.

One of the greatest no doubt but there are issues I'm wondering about.

Yes, Schumi is/was a great driver with the right team, but Fangio, he was GOD.

450SEL6.9 · 09-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinbo

Keep your criticism in check IE, it's starting to cheese people (especially me) off.

And I thought I was the only one who had that viewpoint about IE!

Also, how can anyone doubt Schu's driving ability by referencing his teammates' pace? How many times have his teammates beaten him and showed more pace than him? Not bloody many. He holds the record for fastest laps in F1 by a mile. His teammates may have been contractually obligated not to pass him, but were they obligated to drive slowly to make his lap times look good?

Did Piquet, Brundle, Jos the Boss, Irvine, Barrichello, Massa all decide to go slowly in order to be obliterated by Schu? Chances are, he was always much faster than any teammate he had. Were there contract stipulations for the No. 2 Ferrari to never try to beat Schu's fastest lap? If Barrichello finished close behind Schu so much, perhaps it was because Schu saved the car to get her to the finish. Perhaps that's why he had such a great reliability record.

I respect Fangio for racing in that dangerous era. That's why I think Jackie Stewart should get a vote. He did more for F1 safety than anyone.

Looks like Schu's peaked in the poll! Ayrton is catching!

martinbo · 09-14-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil

And sorry for the harsh words.

Nice of you to say sorry. Apology accepted.

RikfromBelgium · 09-14-2006, 12:29 PM

yes, driving conditions were harsher during fangio's time. But don't forget it was the same for everybody. Just like it's the same for everybody now. Schumacher may have it easier on a technical point, but so has the competition. That way it's MUCH harder to create such domination like he has in the past 15 years. And saying he didn't have any competition like there used to be, are we forgetting Hakinnen, Prost, Hill, Raikonnen, Villeneuve, ...
Are we forgetting his very early results? His immediate high ranking? Are we forgetting HE made Ferrari what they are today, and not the other way arround like some seem to suggest?
IMO, he is the greatest, an allround perfect pilote. Not just driving, like others before him, but also with perfect understanding of the car.

450SEL6.9 · 09-15-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RikfromBelgium

Are we forgetting HE made Ferrari what they are today, and not the other way arround like some seem to suggest?

That is exactly why I said Schu was greatest ever in the first post in the thread! Let's face it, Ferrari were a mid-tier team on a massive budget before Schu got there. They were famous for their inept pitstops for a while. He won three races in '96 with a lemon, the F310 B. He contended for '97 title. I think he really did an awesome job motivating the team.

450SEL6.9 · 09-16-2006, 12:47 PM

What if Senna did not die at Imola? Would he have as many votes? I thought Schu would get 75 percent or more. Jim Clark was also killed, in a Formula 2 race at Hockenheim, but maybe we're all too young to remember him. There is a certain level of otherwise unattainable romance and glory reserved for drivers paying with their lives.

RikfromBelgium · 09-16-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450SEL 6.9

What if Senna did not die at Imola? Would he have as many votes? I thought Schu would get 75 percent or more. Jim Clark was also killed, in a Formula 2 race at Hockenheim, but maybe we're all too young to remember him. There is a certain level of otherwise unattainable romance and glory reserved for drivers paying with their lives.

true. At first hand people are saying schumacher had it too easy, because the sport is much safer.
On the other hand Senna is getting way more votes than Fangio.

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest driver in F1 history
Juan Manuel Fangio - 5 World Championship, record stood until 2003	6	10.91%
Jim Clark - 2 WDC, Fangio once called him best racing driver ever	0	0%
Jackie Stewart - 3 WDC, helped improve safety in F1	1	1.82%
Alain Prost - 4 WDC, 2nd all-time with 51 wins	0	0%
Ayrton Senna - 3 WDC, 65 poles from 161 starts	18	32.73%
Michael Schumacher - 7 WDC, 90 wins, hold all major records	30	54.55%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

09-13-2006, 03:17 PM	#23 (permalink)
siko Devotee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 3,586 My Mood: Thanks: 815 Thanked 688 Times in 362 Posts	Re: The Greatest Ever? I'm no fan, but Schumacher gets my vote.

09-14-2006, 12:29 PM	#27 (permalink)
RikfromBelgium Advocate Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 880 My Mood: Thanks: 26 Thanked 125 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The Greatest Ever? yes, driving conditions were harsher during fangio's time. But don't forget it was the same for everybody. Just like it's the same for everybody now. Schumacher may have it easier on a technical point, but so has the competition. That way it's MUCH harder to create such domination like he has in the past 15 years. And saying he didn't have any competition like there used to be, are we forgetting Hakinnen, Prost, Hill, Raikonnen, Villeneuve, ... Are we forgetting his very early results? His immediate high ranking? Are we forgetting HE made Ferrari what they are today, and not the other way arround like some seem to suggest? IMO, he is the greatest, an allround perfect pilote. Not just driving, like others before him, but also with perfect understanding of the car.

09-16-2006, 12:47 PM	#29 (permalink)
450SEL6.9 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 825 My Mood: Thanks: 57 Thanked 60 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The Greatest Ever? What if Senna did not die at Imola? Would he have as many votes? I thought Schu would get 75 percent or more. Jim Clark was also killed, in a Formula 2 race at Hockenheim, but maybe we're all too young to remember him. There is a certain level of otherwise unattainable romance and glory reserved for drivers paying with their lives.

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