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View Poll Results: Which F1 record is hardest to break?
91 Wins, Holder - M. Schumacher 7 17.95%
7 Drivers' Titles - M. Schumacher 9 23.08%
68 Pole Positions - M. Schumacher 1 2.56%
76 Fastest Laps - M. Schumacher 1 2.56%
47% Career Winning % - J.M. Fangio 19 48.72%
256 Races - R. Patrese 2 5.13%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-21-2007, 10:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

Quote:
Originally Posted by chonkoa View Post
I voted for the 91 wins.
I believe the percentage is a difficult to beat, but on technical grounds is a bit weak. If we take Lewis Hamilton for example- he has had 7 F1 races in his career and has won 2 giving him a percentage of 28%. If Hamilton wins 6 more races this year and retires(which is very unlikely but within the realm of possibility) he will be at 58%. Better still, he wins the next 3 races and something terrible happens- that will be 50% race wins.

All in all, I believe the 91 wins by Michael Schumacher is a daunting record.

450SEL,

Just to be sure we are using the same metrics here, is % win only confined to Formula races?
For the % statistics, I used F1 races only.

I too think Fangio's 47% win percentage is unbelievable and will never be broken. If Hamilton wins six additional this year or something were to happen after three more wins, his career winning percentage will exceed Fangio's. However, unless his career ends after his rookie year, which would merit an asterisk besides his record, his percentage will not stay at 50% or at I least I hope it won't. Fangio set his % over arguably the most successful/greatest racing career ever, all without getting killed or deliberately ramming his opponents to win.

There is a driver who raced twice and won one GP. However, I think the serious record for all-time winning percentage must be credited to Fangio.

Last edited by 450SEL6.9; 06-21-2007 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by TycoonGTR View Post
With 7 titles you can break every single record mentioned, except the one of Patrese... That, of course, if your car always performs like today's McLaren and depending how many years you stay in F1...

I don't see that. For instance, it is possible for someone to win 8 WDC (say out of 10 seasons) and not get close to the records for poles, fastest laps and most of all Fangio's win percentage. You can win 3 or 4 races per year and be world champ. Winning 6 or 7 races in one season will get you a WDC more often than not. The only drivers to win seven GPs in a season and lose the title were Kimi and Schu. Even if a driver wins 7 WDC by winning 6 or 7 races per year, he will only get near No. 2 and No. 3 in terms of all-time wins, Prost and Senna. Also, pole positions don't necessarily correlate with race wins. You can win a lot without being on pole. In 2004, Schu won 13 (14 if you count his Indy "gift"), but he was on pole only 8 times. Schumacher took two more full seasons after his record-breaking 7th title to best Senna's pole record. Had he retired after his 7th, he would still have all the other records, but not the pole record.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:04 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

Would be interesting if someone stepped in for someone one race, won and then quit. 100%.
Would've been possible in say, US GP 2005 in a Ferrari.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by Zonda View Post
Would be interesting if someone stepped in for someone one race, won and then quit. 100%.
Would've been possible in say, US GP 2005 in a Ferrari.
If someone did that, he should immediately be kidnapped and forced back into an F1 car to start two more races just to kill his %.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9 View Post
I don't see that. For instance, it is possible for someone to win 8 WDC (say out of 10 seasons) and not get close to the records for poles, fastest laps and most of all Fangio's win percentage. You can win 3 or 4 races per year and be world champ. Winning 6 or 7 races in one season will get you a WDC more often than not. The only drivers to win seven GPs in a season and lose the title were Kimi and Schu. Even if a driver wins 7 WDC by winning 6 or 7 races per year, he will only get near No. 2 and No. 3 in terms of all-time wins, Prost and Senna. Also, pole positions don't necessarily correlate with race wins. You can win a lot without being on pole. In 2004, Schu won 13 (14 if you count his Indy "gift"), but he was on pole only 8 times. Schumacher took two more full seasons after his record-breaking 7th title to best Senna's pole record. Had he retired after his 7th, he would still have all the other records, but not the pole record.

With the pointing system & rules of today or of in the days of Fangio, Prost would have been WDC also in 83, 84, 88 and 90 beside his 85, 86 89 and 93 titles, but still his average would have not be near Fangio's 47%.
Fangio also had team mates like Farina (to witch he lost the WDC in 1950) and Moss. And both of them are also responsable for "downgrading" his average to a "mere" 47%.

And ofcourse, Hawthorne and Rosberg had the WDC by just one victory.
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by Imhotep Evil View Post
With the pointing system & rules of today or of in the days of Fangio, Prost would have been WDC also in 83, 84, 88 and 90 beside his 85, 86 89 and 93 titles, but still his average would have not be near Fangio's 47%.
I reckon that the points system would not have resulted in any additional wins for Prost unless it pushed him to drive for more wins. Possible. His lifetime winning percentage would remain 25% or thereabouts. The thing is that winning 1/4 of your career races while competing against three 3x WDCs, Mansell and a young Schumacher is already massively impressive.

Schumacher is remembered for his "boring" dominance of F1, but to equal Fangio's percentage, he would have to win 50 straight races to take his 36.4% winning ratio up to 47% . . . The fact that Fangio could have died nine-times over in his era makes his achievement unparalleled.

Why no votes for fastest laps? Prost and Mansell combined only had 71 and they are 2nd and 3rd all-time. Also, no votes for the journeyman Patrese?
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9 View Post
I reckon that the points system would not have resulted in any additional wins for Prost unless it pushed him to drive for more wins. Possible. His lifetime winning percentage would remain 25% or thereabouts. The thing is that winning 1/4 of your career races while competing against three 3x WDCs, Mansell and a young Schumacher is already massively impressive.

No extra wins, but 4 extra WDCs.
The gap between 1st 2nd and 3rd today and in the 50s is and/was 2 points, 10 - 8 - 6 vs. 8 - 6 - 4.
Also Prost had to deal with the idiotic best out of first 11 rule, witch, if I'm not mistaking, is the reason he lost in 84 to Lauda and in 88 to Senna.



Quote:
Schumacher is remembered for his "boring" dominance of F1, but to equal Fangio's percentage, he would have to win 50 straight races to take his 36.4% winning ratio up to 47% . . . The fact that Fangio could have died nine-times over in his era makes his achievement unparalleled.

Agreed.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

I personally don't think anyone will be able to beat Fangio's record. That is really hard to do, not to mention the skill required in those times was crazy.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

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Originally Posted by NarutoRamen View Post
I personally don't think anyone will be able to beat Fangio's record. That is really hard to do, not to mention the skill required in those times was crazy.

Skills are always required, just that today's challenges are others.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Formula One Record Hardest to Break

Quote:
Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9 View Post
For the % statistics, I used F1 races only.

I too think Fangio's 47% win percentage is unbelievable and will never be broken. If Hamilton wins six additional this year or something were to happen after three more wins, his career winning percentage will exceed Fangio's. However, unless his career ends after his rookie year, which would merit an asterisk besides his record, his percentage will not stay at 50% or at I least I hope it won't. Fangio set his % over arguably the most successful/greatest racing career ever, all without getting killed or deliberately ramming his opponents to win.

There is a driver who raced twice and won one GP. However, I think the serious record for all-time winning percentage must be credited to Fangio.
Thanks for the clarification.
May I humbly suggest that you add a caveat to the % race win option, perhaps adding a minimum number of formula 1 races as well (50,100, 200 etc)

Last edited by chonkoa; 06-21-2007 at 07:36 PM.
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