Harry Plopper

What I find very interesting is that now everyone want to be on Obama wagon. It's so fashionable.

Few months ago everyone favors Hillary. Now everybody disses her. And in the meantime she hasen't changed at all. We all knew what plays would the Clintons play - as they do it everytime. Nothing new here.

OK, I can see Obama being more likable, but I do not understand why dissing Hillary is become as fashionable as liking Obama. Dissing your opponent does not bring "new", "change", "unity". It's an old school. Hillary does that, Obama does that. Yet when Obama does it people nod, while Hillary does that everybody are disgusted with her. I see a lot of hypocrisy in that. People are believing & hearing what they want to hear & believe - ignoring the reality.

I'm not against Obama. I even like the idea he becomes the president there - it will definitely be a historic moment.

But ... I just do not like people blindly believing in something - especially when it comes to politics. Politics ain't religion, and politicians shouldn't be compared to preachers.

A bit more critical view on Obama would be welcome. Now when somebody says something against Obama he/she is marked as being against "new politics", aginst change, aginst black president, pro status quo etc. Doesn't that reminds you of something? Hint: If you're not with us, you're against us.



Why do you think Obama has such immunity in media, while Mrs. Clinton is constantly under attack. And when a paper says something against Obama everybody start to claim it's anti-Obama propaganda by Clinton camp.

Objective US media? Ha-ha-ha.

I anticipated to watch the campaign yet this Obama hysteria went just over the edge. It's not even funny anymore.

Yet this clerly shows how "popular" Hillary is. Imagine her being nominated: what would right-wing media do to her, when even the left-wing / liberal media dis her. Ouch!

So, let's hope today's debate with Clinton & Obama will be more about issues & solutions than playing games & big talk.

I'm sure Obama camp has also some great solutions in their plans. Let's make these solutions being presented.

450SEL6.9

But Kerry was too Liberal to ever be elected in the south. The Dems had every chance to win that election because in 2004, the economy was down 2 million jobs from when Bush took over. I think Kerry was the wrong candidate in '04 and that's why he lost rather badly.

The thing is Super Tuesday was supposed to help nominate an electable southern Democrat with centrist views. Yet it has confirmed the nominations of Liberals like Mondale in '84, Dukakis in '88 and Kerry! All went down in sizable defeats.

I'm not sure that it does qualify one to be a better president, but I think it is the perception that can be valuable, if properly marketed.

My point was that America is still at war and historically during war-time, the military candidate and former five-star generals do well. Plus, America hasn't had a president with extensive military experience for quite a while, maybe too long. However, I know this current Iraq war is unpopular, but there is still a war on terror ongoing.

I think the trend towards supporting a certain world leader because it is the fashionable thing to do is troubling. It seems that the western world's obsession with celebrity has filtered into the political arena as well. When I consider how much wealth and influence flaky celebrities already possess, it causes me to shake my head.

EnI, I think you answered your own question in that excellent post of yours. I reckon Obama has so much immunity because anyone speaking negatively against him is instantly labeled. Rob also made a great point that some people who are so eager and fervent in their support of Obama are secretly guilty of their parents and grandparents' racist views in the past. Perhaps these people are so eager to jump on the Obama Critics in order to redeem their own conscience and family history.

As the campaign gets nastier, I think the Obama detractors will be blasted as racists and that will cause even more of his critics to say nothing.

Centurion

We are early in the campaign. Many potential candidates but after the summer they will have been filtered down to 2 or 3 potential presidents. The filtering has already begun as Edwards and Guliani are off the race.

This is all foreplay and like we have seen, support is going back and forth. Slowly but steadily the election will escalate and get more headed. Don't expect Obama's immunity will last for much longer and the last standing candidates will be put on the stool for questioning and criticism. Skeletons and things from the past will be dug up.

Criticism targeted towards Obama will generally be accepted as long as they are backed up by facts and the same goes for support. I neither support nor oppose him since I haven't been able to properly follow the election. Although there is a small band wagon in motion here I doubt that all his his support is a result of his rock star status.

The Diva

Dang!

and I though this was a men's fashion thread

Matt530i

Obama wrote an autobiography and aired most of his dirty laundry about two years ago. He admitted things like trying pot in college. So we're not going to have an "I didn't inhale" moment. If the book was premeditated, when someone digs up some dirt he can say "That's old news, I wrote about it in my book."

Still, you're right that if there's more dirt out there, it will be dug up. If the Clinton's have some dirt, it will be bought up this weekend or Monday. They'll give him the minimum amount of time to 'right' the record before "Super Tuesday".

My two cents on Eni's original question is this. With the exception of Obama, all the other candidates started with themes along the lines of:

-what's wrong with America
-who's to blame
-what you should be afraid of

Then their campaigns became about, how to fix America, how they'll get the bad guy and how they, and only they, can protect you.

Obama's message, whether it's just fluff or not, gives something for people to look forward to. He talks about what's right with America and offers a positive vision.

Given the choice between a world where you need to be in fear all the time (can't count the number of times I've heard 'Radical Islamist Fundamentalist') and a world of hope, a lot of people are going to choose hope even if they don't believe it will happen because it's better than the alternative.

coolraoul

That is a very interesting discussion. I've learn a lot here, thanks guys.

NarutoRamen

Eni...all your posts just make it sound like you don't like Obama at all. 450SEL, you're generalizing so many things that it's not even funny.

I don't know why people bring up Obama's race and ask "where would he be without the race card?" but at the same time never ask the questions: "Where would Hillary be without Bill?" or "Where would McCain be without his Vietnam POW issues?".

Everyone has something going for them and usually the people who bring "race" into question are usually the ones who always make their judgements based on race.

I could talk about all these folks a lot more, but I'd rather not...

Choleric

If Ann Coulter would vote for Hillary over McCain, I don't think Obama has much to worry about...

Centurion

Well said. All of them have at least one big attribute working to their advantage.

450SEL6.9

Have you been following the campaigns, Naruto?

The respective campaigns and the sheepish followers in the media have been generalizing even more. There's all this BS generalization about how electing certain candidates would instantly and almost magically bring about change. It's ridiculous.

But that is a grossly unfair statement and huge generalization yourself, albeit a lot of people are using in. In this campaign anyone who talks about race is quickly and perhaps unreasonably questioned. That's not really healthy and it doesn't mean Americans' views about race has changed.

A lot of experienced political pundits have written about where they think Obama (with his record and experience) would be with if he was not the first viable black candidate. It's a legitimate consideration. If the Democrats want to win, they had better stop treating it like a racial potshot.

I have to take that with a grain of salt. I have always said that a lot of Republicans want Hillary nominated. That may mean holding back from criticizing her now or saying other things to help.

I have a had time believing that even the hardest core of Republicans would rather want a Clinton than McCain. McCain has an 82 conservative rating. To the Republicans, Clinton is Clinton.