Poverty

Have you driven the clio 182 cup? You should really do that and see what real fun is about. I think they have gift sets that you can buy where you spend a day racing those sport clios and get taught advanced driving also. Could be a good treat for yourself, and you will also see that FWD can be really really fun.

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The Artist

lol i would love that.. now your giving me 1 example.. and im sure there are more..
but both you and i know.. the benchmark for sportscars and fun driving is rear wheel drive.. and aint nothing gonna change that..
if it where anything diffrent, then many of the top sports car makers would go FWD as it is even lighter as someone said here

Choleric

You are 100% right Artist, RWD cars are probably more "fun" than FWD cars. But like I said earlier, The majority of people who buy cars from Audi, BMW, and MB are average working men/women who want a car to get from point A to point B in the city, not a car that they are going to have fun driving around a track. If they want that fun car to drive they can buy S/RS, M, or AMG car thats why they make those cars.

Harry Plopper

But for some of these A-to-B drivers a "capability factor" is very important. No matter if this capability is ever used or not. It's presence is important. They pay for that. It's a matter of prestige. That's why they buy a premium product/brand, and not Renault, Fiat, Toyota, Ford etc. And for some eg 318i is enough, yet for some only M3 will satisfy the need.

Capability factor = what your car is capable of; what your car's limits are.

And some people just buy BMW despite they never really experience a thrill of RWD, or some buy an Audi Quattro despite never really need an AWD (especially since ESP / DSC makes wonders nowadays), etc.

Choleric

I agree with you Eni, but many times this is just as much an ego thing as it is capability factor. My original point was how we always love to emphasize the track performances on the forums but I still feel that the majority of people ( in the US at least, I can't speak for Europe) could care less what their car handles like on a track or what numbers some magazine gets. Sure they want the luxury and prestige of the German Marque but when buying, very few will consider how the car performs on the track.

NarutoRamen

Wait a sec. Why is everyone backing up FWD saying that its great for everyday use when this thread was started with the question "Can the undisputed benchmark for performance and handling BMW be taken down by the four rings?". That question said nothing about everyday people and everyday mommy and daddy cars. That question clearly talked about performance. So why not just stop defending AUDI on the notion that "but FWD is great for everyday". We all know that for day to day driving FWD is fine. This thread asked that can AUDI take the Performance and Handling crown away from BMW. Not with FWD offerings they can't. Simple.

The Artist

^ thank you thats what ive been trying to say all the time

PS
but like eni says.. allthough i dont take my car to the track..i dont know why rearwheel cars feels more right for me.. maybe its cause ive always had RWD cars..

Ultimate Car Guy

In my opinion a RWD car will always have more potential to be a driver's car than a FWD vehicle. It always has to do with balance, and a RWD can attain a 50/50 weight distribution with less compromise than a FWD car.

I believe Audi's MPL will be very promising. It will be a major improvement over the current offerings and it will challenge the RWD BMWs and Mercs in ride comfort if not handling. But at the end of the day it will still remain a FWD, which has far less potential than RWD to be dynamically superior.

I'm not an engineer, but if i were Audi, i would not only focus on building a platform which pushes the characteristics of FWD closer to RWD. I would focus on reducing WEIGHT. I believe that Audi has the advantage over BMW and MB is mass producing aluminium construction. And it has to use this expertise as a weapon to compete with BMWs dynamics prowess.

RICHBOY

I don't think Audi's worried about taking down BMW or anyone else for that matter, I believe Audi's current goal is to shake the notion of poor reliablity which damaged their brand image in the 90's! I personally believe Audi has maded trumendence strides over the last few years to repair it's brand name. Being "In The Know" I would take the S8 over any luxury sports car out, and I'm leaning towards trading my S55AMG in for one this summer! My other choices are S550 AMG or a Quattroporte GT. However my business partner who still believes Audi's are unreliable
represents a large number of the buyers market, who aren't aware of the strides Audi has made.

I realize I got a little off topic so know I don't think Audi can take down BMW, nor can BMW slow Audi's growth!
They will co-exsist as they should!

Mirage77

Weight is indeed an issue with Audis with Quattro. Even with their ASF they can only 'pay' for the weight deficit caused by the naturally more porky AWD mechanicals.

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