1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 - Page 3

Harry Plopper · 04-14-2006, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdvEvo

Bmw is looking to much into horse power wars. a pity if you ask me. They could rather go look into lighten the cars. And build CSL like cars that s how a m3 should be in the first place. A car don t need v8 or v10 engine if they keep the weight down. All cars above 1400kg brings nothing special in driving dynamics. Even 1400kg is on the heavy side.

Main market for M cars are still the US. HP numbers still have a lot of magic there. There is no way - in marketing POV - to avoid high HP numbers in premium segment. For now.

But BMW are aware HP is an easy reach fore every car maker today - in turbo era. So, they are dedicated to get performance also with decreasing car's weight. Power-to-weight ratio will become more important - also in marketing POV. BMW will point out that in every future promotional campaign.

Automotive world will be very pleasently surprised with new M3 weight - end even more with power-to-weight ratio.

In the future BMW will be even more focused on lightweight construction. Technoligically almost everything is possible, only costs are the limit. BMW cars have to be priced reasonly, and make profit.

I'm sorry to say, but BMW will focus on turbo engines more and more. Also M will see turbo quite soon: smaller displacement, lighter engines, more power & torque, less gas consuption, etc. Benefits are huge - especially now when turbos can be as smooth and responsive as NA engines.

Centurion · 04-14-2006, 07:17 AM

THis whole M2 project(if there is one) seem very interesting and the car will be pretty much unique with no competitors. It will be like an RX8 type of thing.
Personally I don't think that it would be profitable for BMW to focus alot of their resources on CSL type of cars. The manufacturer builds cars for the mass and not many people can't afford and not want to drive a car which is uncomfortable and bumpy like the CSL or GT3RS

AdvEvo · 04-14-2006, 07:23 AM

Enilab say :Automotive world will be very pleasently surprised with new M3 weight - end even more with power-to-weight ratio.

I will be very surprised if this car will be the same weight of the outgoing e46 m3 that is 1470kg. My quess is it will not be under 1500kg. If it is however lighter than 1470kg i might consider buying one.

Who knows what the e46 m3 GTR street version was on the scales. Just found it aproxx 1350kg dryweight. If the new m3 v8 has the weight of that i buy one.

Imhotep Evil · 04-14-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luwalira

THis whole M2 project(if there is one) seem very interesting and the car will be pretty much unique with no competitors. It will be like an RX8 type of thing.

Well it should be like that.

Quote:

Personally I don't think that it would be profitable for BMW to focus alot of their resources on CSL type of cars.

It depens on the pricing and sales.

Quote:

The manufacturer builds cars for the mass and not many people can't afford and not want to drive a car which is uncomfortable and bumpy like the CSL or GT3RS

Well it doesn't necesarily have to be uncomfortable and bumpy.

[For people who don't know BMW history]

1. The 2002 was a 2 door sedan. One of the reason it was 2 door was to save weight/improve acceleration/improve braking/fuel eficiency.
This car weighted 1080 kilo / 2381 lb.
Compare that to the supercars of today, and the little bimmer wins without using carbon fibre and so on.
And another thing, this car was just about the most agile car made in Germany. This car could actualy challange a Mini on the bends/corners, on Porsche 911 that was complete suicide (becase of the tail happy-ness).

2. Now the other great BMW car the 328. It's weight, between 700 and 800 Kg depending on the body.
While light and a true sport car, this cars wasn't a spartan car like the rest of the bunch. It was quite comfortable for a sport car, and noise wasn't a problem either.
And this was before Porsche actualy made cars, and long before the CSL.

[/For people who don't know BMW history]

The way I see it, making light cars for BMW is just going back to the roots.
Using once again the recepy that made BMW great.
Sadly today's standards (safety etc.) means cars are alot heavyer and to lose weight you need expensive materials.

Matt · 04-14-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EniLab

Let me explain something:

1. E86 & E89 2-series cabrio & coupe are coming next year (Europe)
2. 2-series will be sold in US, 1-series (the hatch) won't
3. there will be no M1 (hatch), only "si" version - not decided yet what engine
4. there is no decision taken yet whether to build M2 or not - still on hold

BMW are aiming to re-introduce the legendary 02-series (2002i) with the new 2er. So, the car have to be nimble & agile. Chasis engineers are tweaking the E86/9 chasis - to make it more capable than the hatch's one. The I6 proved to be too heavy for sporty top-end 1er / 2er. Therefore I4T is in the work for the top model "si" - and can be tweaked to M, if necessary for M2.

235i - I doubt it. That would mean 2er coupe/cabrio and 3er coupe/cabrio top versions (except M version) would be the same - BMW marketing would never do that, believe me.

The future is: turbo. I4T, I6T, V8T, V12T.

Audi is going also this way: S3 with 2.0L 4-cylindre 250+hp TFSI

So, expect M2 or "si" with I4 turbo with 280-300PS.

Remember: smaller models, lower prices, lower profit margin. So, M2 will be there only if it pays off. M resources are needed for more important, more profitable products ... So, M2 engine - if there will be M2 - will be a derivate of a standard engine, not made from scratch.

Do you remember how they never renamed the 3 coupe a 4 series, well they're not planning to do that with the 1 series either. It will be the 1 series in the coupe form and it will get the 3.0 litre turbo, you can count on that. The M1/2 has not been confirmed and may never be. I think BMW is still debating whether to build that.

LonghornTX · 04-14-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Do you remember how they never renamed the 3 coupe a 4 series, well they're not planning to do that with the 1 series either. It will be the 1 series in the coupe form and it will get the 3.0 litre turbo, you can count on that. The M1/2 has not been confirmed and may never be. I think BMW is still debating whether to build that.

Sorry but I am going to have to respectfully disagree. With the 3 vs. 4 naming scheme BMW would have lost heritage value by changing, something that could be potentially very damaging to such an image conscious cars as the 3. However, with the 1 vs. 2, there is no previous heritage for the 1 while there is a WHOLE LOT of heritage related to the number 2. Think about all the add campaigns comparing the old 2002 to the new 2-series. It would be a perfect way to instantly gain acceptance. This would also work around the world as well, where the 1 is still a relatively new model. If they aim to move the coupe upmarket/differentiate it a bit compared to the 1, it plays even better. I see the new coupe being the 2-series without a doubt....

Deutsch · 04-15-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Do you remember how they never renamed the 3 coupe a 4 series, well they're not planning to do that with the 1 series either.

going w/ the name "2 series" would be a very logical step for BMW in the marketing of this car, it would provide a direct link to the original 2002 that had a serious impact on the BMW enthusiast world, not to mention all the young peole that can't pop $40k on a 3er and would love to own a Bimmer. By no means though do I think this will be a "poser" car for BMW, I thiink the ride and size will be enough to run some away, but for driving enthusiast such as myself that aren't doing hand outs from parents, this would work great.

Harry Plopper · 04-15-2006, 04:27 PM

The heritage is one of the advantages BMW have over the Japanese luxury brands (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti). BMW believe true prestige can be gained from heritage only. New prestige - artificial luxury brands are "empty", "without passion".

And BMW are know for inventing sports sedan: 02-series, which matured into 3-series - still the best compact sports sedan. A benchmark for most of the car manufacturers.

So, 02-series have a very special place in BMW history. It was re-invented via 3-series, right now the resurrection is taking place - see HERE, but next year we will witness the rebirth of 02-series - a new 2-series: 2-door sedan-ish coupe & cabrio.

As said many times: the advertising campaign will be based on referring on the old (0)2-series. An instant success. Remember what BMW made out of new MINI? Expect similar from the new 2-series.

There will be 2-series. Coupe & cabrio.
1er will be a hatch only (5 & 3-door).

AdvEvo · 04-21-2006, 12:56 PM

new spy shots 1er cabrio on the nurburgring.

- ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

Can t wait on coupe spy shots.

YoungWarrior · 04-21-2006, 06:45 PM

BMW CSL cars are very imortant to the brands heritage and serve its purpose as halo cars. Just how much bragging rights did BMW fans have when the M3CSL posted a 7:50 'ring time beating a bunch of cars with alot more power.

04-14-2006, 07:17 AM	#22 (permalink)
Centurion Trendsetter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,075 Thanks: 595 Thanked 724 Times in 422 Posts	Re: 1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 THis whole M2 project(if there is one) seem very interesting and the car will be pretty much unique with no competitors. It will be like an RX8 type of thing. Personally I don't think that it would be profitable for BMW to focus alot of their resources on CSL type of cars. The manufacturer builds cars for the mass and not many people can't afford and not want to drive a car which is uncomfortable and bumpy like the CSL or GT3RS

04-14-2006, 07:23 AM	#23 (permalink)
AdvEvo Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 122 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 15 Posts	Re: 1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 Enilab say :Automotive world will be very pleasently surprised with new M3 weight - end even more with power-to-weight ratio. I will be very surprised if this car will be the same weight of the outgoing e46 m3 that is 1470kg. My quess is it will not be under 1500kg. If it is however lighter than 1470kg i might consider buying one. Who knows what the e46 m3 GTR street version was on the scales. Just found it aproxx 1350kg dryweight. If the new m3 v8 has the weight of that i buy one. Last edited by AdvEvo; 04-14-2006 at 09:24 AM.

04-15-2006, 04:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
Harry Plopper Oinky Wizard Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,770 My Mood: Thanks: 76 Thanked 920 Times in 478 Posts	Re: 1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 The heritage is one of the advantages BMW have over the Japanese luxury brands (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti). BMW believe true prestige can be gained from heritage only. New prestige - artificial luxury brands are "empty", "without passion". And BMW are know for inventing sports sedan: 02-series, which matured into 3-series - still the best compact sports sedan. A benchmark for most of the car manufacturers. So, 02-series have a very special place in BMW history. It was re-invented via 3-series, right now the resurrection is taking place - see HERE, but next year we will witness the rebirth of 02-series - a new 2-series: 2-door sedan-ish coupe & cabrio. As said many times: the advertising campaign will be based on referring on the old (0)2-series. An instant success. Remember what BMW made out of new MINI? Expect similar from the new 2-series. There will be 2-series. Coupe & cabrio. 1er will be a hatch only (5 & 3-door).

04-21-2006, 12:56 PM	#29 (permalink)
AdvEvo Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 122 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 15 Posts	Re: 1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 new spy shots 1er cabrio on the nurburgring. - ONLY REGISTERED AND ACTIVATED USERS CAN SEE ALL LINKS - CLICK HERE TO REGISTER Can t wait on coupe spy shots.

04-21-2006, 06:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
YoungWarrior Advocate Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 622 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 1er / 2er future models: Scott26 reports; part 2 BMW CSL cars are very imortant to the brands heritage and serve its purpose as halo cars. Just how much bragging rights did BMW fans have when the M3CSL posted a 7:50 'ring time beating a bunch of cars with alot more power.

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